Streaming media player or computer with DAC?

Hello guys,

I finally got rid of all my CDs. Everything is digital now.

Now I'm looking for a media player to sit together with my turntable.

What would you guys say is a better idea/sound best: a streaming media player (if so, which?) or an older Macbook Pro 15" in excelent shape coupled with one of those USB DACs and Audirvana?

I thank you all in advance!

 

Simple question : Do you need your files to be streamed to other rooms or are you listening to your files mainly on your main stereo rig ?
If you are content with your main listening Stereo than I'd choose a DAC. Unfussy and you can get good deals on those - Either with a headphone out or a Pre-amp-there are even Integrated amps available today with decent DAC's and async USB inputs.
If you want the whole package get a server and a streamer.

 

A computer based playing/streaming solution is going to be more flexible and future proof than a built into a single box streaming device.

With a computer based solution you have choices for different software for the player and streamer. If the company that makes the software goes out of business or stops doing upgrades you can always switch to different software without much difficulty. If you find you need a feature later that your current software doesn't support you can find different software that will support that. Choices. Flexibility.

Buy a hardware all in one box player/streamer and if the manufacturer decides to stop doing firmware upgrades for it you are hosed. Stuck.

There's lots of ways to go for doing this. Some involve actual streaming. Some could be local file playback with no real streaming.

One option is to put your old Mac laptop in your audio rack. Plug in a USB DAC. Plug in a USB external hard drive if you need more storage. Also have the option of connecting to a NAS or other network share to store the music. Run software like JRiver Media Center or other similar software. Use an iPad or Android tablet or a second laptop or even a web browser on a TV as a remote to control what the Mac laptop on your audio rack is playing.

If you need actual streaming so you can do something like stream music over your home network to a small system in your kitchen you can do that as well.

 

I ended up with the Sony HAP-Z1ES. A computer is required to load music onto the player, but not for the unit to play, it plays from it's own 1TB internal drive plus you can add an external drive if you want more storage.

For me the pros are that I don't need a computer to act as the player, I don't need a USB cable or any other digital cable for that matter, it's all internal in the Sony. A tablet or phone can run a remote app, it includes internet radio and it organizes the music files automatically.

The biggest pro is the Sony ES components are built like tanks and sound amazing. I seriously doubt you will be able to put together a computer based music server with DAC that will come close to the Sony's performance for the same price.

 

I'd keep the MacBook near my listening chair for easy access and use AirPlay to send music over to an Airport Express connected to my main rig. For $99 you can't go wrong. If you're up and about, you can control things via your iPhone/iPad.

 

Not arguing with your choice of the Sony HAP Z1ES or your perception of the sonics but since when is a component with a screen, digital processor and hard drive not a computer?? I agree that the Sony is a very compromised computer by modern standards but still...

 

It's all about your lifestyle, choices and flexibility. Also your computer skills. I like to be semi mobile with the capabilities no different than my home system. As few pieces in combination and weight to achieve the biggest bang in quality sound. I couldn't imagine being without a PC based system for all in one solution and choices. Anything other than a PC/MAC based system has trade offs and limitations. With a PC based system you can grow your hobby skills in many directions and have complete control of the outcome.

 

I am a fan of this approach, as well. With the $60 purchase price that you have with the 1st Gen Airport Express, you can always upgrade later if future needs change.

I also like a computer based approach. I run a program called Airfoil that will turn my mac mini into an Airplay audio receiver, so you can get similar benefits with a computer, plus the added flexibility of running any audio program (I am partial to Fidelia) you want.

 

I use a Laptop and a DAC. I like the idea of a media player, but they seem very limited compared to the versatility offered by the computer. I am also not sure that I would concede that the sound quality of a computer based system cannot be as good as a dedicated media player at the same price point. The SONY player costs $2000, and I think that will buy a lot of DAC and computer.

 

I use iTunes. My receiver is hooked up via ethernet to my modem so I can take advantage of iTunes AirPlay. I've got over 2TB worth of storage.

Right now I'm playing MP3's @ 320kbps. Sounds great to me.

Another thing that I do sometimes is take advantage of the Pioneer app on my phone. I've got a 32GB care memory and tons of music on my Android phone. The Pioneer app let's me control my receiver's volume as well as some other settings and I can stream the music on my phone through my receiver. So when I'm out back on the patio grilling or whatever, I have total control of what I'm listening to and my volume right from my patio. Between the app, an ice chest full of beer, a tree and the cover of darkness, I never have to go inside!!

 

I have a similar setup with my Denon (which has Airplay built in). Any Airplay signal sent to it will automatically turn on the receiver and allow control of the volume from inside the app I am using. I have to use the Denon app to turn it off, though.

I have a separate setup in our sunroom that I listen to out in the yard. We have an Airport Express out there, so it expands the wifi signal while allowing music to be controlled and played from the mac mini/NAS or from Spotify and other music apps via my iPhone or iPad. It is pretty awesome for when I am grilling out or lounging in the pool (I have Lifeproof cases on my iPhone/iPad).

 

Agreed, just be advised the "pre-1G" Airport Express is no longer supported in current release of OSX:
https://discussions.apple.com/message/19299375#19299375

 

I have a Logitech Squeezebox Touch, a 1TB external hard drive, and an ancient Dell laptop to run the Squeezebox server.

I love it!

 

You are probably correct. I was referring to the old model, but there are probably different versions. I am referring to this model Apple Airport Express MB321LL/A ($55 used):

 

I too have a Squeezebox system (2xTouch, 3xRadio, Classic, PiCorePlayer, multiple PC/Android controller/players, dedicated XP server) but I wouldn't recommend it for someone just starting out. Hardware is no longer made, used pieces are over-priced on eBay, and DIY solutions require some technical hands-on. Provided hi-res support is not a requirement, however, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Sonos. A Sonos Connect inserted into his system could seek out and index music anywhere on his network and be the hub for future expansion into remote zones. All control is via PC/Mac and handhelds.

OP, what are your thoughts on all this feedback?

 

What kind of quality loss are you incurring with a wireless/Bluetooth setup over a hard connection with redbook? Also I see hi res does not work with the Sonos. How far can one reach with such a wireless connection?
Just curious what all the fuss is over these wireless systems, especially for an audiophile.

Thanks
Elvis

 

Wireless and Bluetooth are two completely different animals. Think of Bluetooth as a replacement for the cable that goes between a player and headphones; in my experience it suffers from pitch instability and is not suitable for a quality audio application. Seems to work fine where timing is not critical such as replacing a printer cable.

Wireless networking (802.11a/b/g/n) was designed to replace an ethernet cable and in that application there can be NO LOSS OF DATA. Wireless-n will reliably transmit music files up to 24/192 across the footprint of a typical house.

That said, it is advised to avoid a wireless "two-hop"; that is having both your music server and your players attached wirelessly to your network. In my system, the server is wired to my router and my players are either wired or wireless depending on where they are located.

 

Stereophile tested the Airport Express with lossless files (16/44.1) and it is bit perfect. Bluetooth is a different animal with different versions. I am not sure that they are lossless. I do know that Bluetooth has limited range when compared to wifi.

As I mentioned, the Airport Express will expand your wireless range (if setup to do so). Keep in mind that the Airport Express has an Ethernet port, so you could use Powerline Ethernet if you have wifi issues. The range of wifi would differ depending on your router.

Looks like Apesbrain posted before I did. I want to mention that "two hop" has never been an issue for me with the Airport Express units. I often play Spotify with my iPhone and send it back to a wireless Airport express without issues. However, I should mention that I don't have anyone eating up wifi bandwidth with an Xbox or gaming.

 

Thanks guys with the intro,
So, With wireless, your not streaming the music, just the music data file, then your using a player that receives the data file for streaming/DAC? Thus the non quality issue. Otherwise if streaming over wireless your introducing a whole host of quality issues, correct? jitter/RF noise
Having devices to receive the wireless file then stream to a dac would be all that is required?

I think I got it wrong, otherwise why the need for a special audio wifi device if not streaming. And if streaming wireless, then you are introducing quality issues on the dac, just as USB can do from a stream via PC to Dac.

 

Understandable, a 24/96 file takes 4.6 MB/s of bandwidth while Spotify "standard" needs only 160 KB/s.

 

Exactly! All that matters is that all the data get to the player in the correct order; something that both wired and wireless are designed to do perfectly. Timing of the data packets is not an issue as the player can cache the incoming data and cleanly re-clock it out to the DAC.

 

Nevermind, I see this a contentious issue in other posts, as is USB cable is in streaming. Thanks for the beginners course on wifi streaming.
Data transfer is never an issue. Streaming is.

 

Onkyo TX-NR818 network stereo receiver. Check out the formats it handles - tons and enough for yer average audiophile!

But hey, it handles streaming, from many sources both on and offboard. Plus additional formats not catered for by the macbook. DSD, HD Audio, etc. Plus you don't need a computer plugged in all the time.

 

I use a dedicated laptop running foobar2000 with external drive along with a DacMagic100 hardwired via digital TOSLINK and then RCA to Preamp.
Install Foobar app on phone and use as remote.
I had been using a Squeezebox Duet and the dedicated computer with the DacMagic was a HUGE upgrade in sound quality. Made the SB sound totally mid-fi.

 

:

While the Airport Express doesn't handle hi rez, my wireless laptop gets 50 megabits per second downloads from the web according to speedtest.com (same as my connected desktop) over wifi. I would guess that the internal network would be even faster (although I am not sure how to test it) since I am hitting my max internet speeds. That should be enough to handle a "two hop", but I don't have a practical way to test it for hi rez files.

* According to my Router specs, it is supposed to be able to handle: "Wireless-AC provides exceptional Wi-Fi speeds of up to 900 Mbps optimizing multimedia streaming to meet all the needs of today's digital lifestyle demands......802.11n is 450 Mbps in the 2.4GHz Band." Should be enough to handle doubling up of 4.6.

I also use my iPhone to stream video from the web and bounce it back to my AppleTV without an issue. Not sure how much bandwidth that takes on average, though.

FYI I use Spotify's 320k files.