Suspiria 4K Restoration Blu-Ray

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MadMelMon, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. moops

    moops Forum Resident

    Location:
    Geebung, Australia
    Exactly ! ...... I thought it was a bit of a stretch that Tovoli was going to be pinpoint accurate with his recollections.
    Meanwhile Dario has been pretty quiet about it all, although he briefly introduces the TLE Films restoration on the UK blu-ray.

    Here's a link to the original screen caps comparison that started the whole hoo-hah.

    Upcoming Suspiria Restoration by Synapse Comparison Shots

    Is the TLE transfer lacking the blues or have they been exaggerated on the Synapse ?
    I have the UK blu-ray which features the TLE transfer and I don't feel it's lacking in anything.
     
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  2. slainte

    slainte Well-Known Member

    Location:
    philadelphia, pa
    I wonder how the sound compares...
     
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  3. moops

    moops Forum Resident

    Location:
    Geebung, Australia
    The 4.0 mix included on the Synapse supposedly hasn't been heard since the film's original theatrical release.
    From reports so far it's a lot more in your face than the 5.1 included with the TLE transfer, more happening in the rear channels as well.
     
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  4. slainte

    slainte Well-Known Member

    Location:
    philadelphia, pa
    I can attest that the mix is agressive with good fidelity. Been a while, but I'm tempted to pull out the anchor bay for comparison sound wise.
     
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  5. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Sometimes these things boil down to a matter of opinion. It may not necessarily be one transfer is completely wrong and the other is completely right -- it may simply be that one went in one direction and one went in another.

    You can draw some comparisons to albums that have been mastered different by different people, even from identical master tapes. Creative decisions are hard to predict and often hinge on personal preference and context, so I'm not one to immediately say "this is all wrong" if it's a subjective area.
     
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  6. Bingo Bongo

    Bingo Bongo No music, no Life

    I've bought Blu Rays from the UK that were region free (James Bond 50). I'd buy them again in 4K given the chance. But of course you may know for a fact it is locked.

    Glad you are happy with it! :edthumbs:
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  7. MadMelMon

    MadMelMon Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I was told it was by the buyer at my store (at least, I think he was referring to that version.)

    Either way, I'm happy with the Synapse version, as I think most (non-obsessive) people would be.
     
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  8. moops

    moops Forum Resident

    Location:
    Geebung, Australia
    Yeah ...... I really don't think it's a matter of picking the "wrong" one in this case, as there seems to be no definitive "right" one. :laugh:

    I'll grab a Synapse copy when they (hopefully !) do a general single disc release, some time next year. There's been too many good reports about it, plus it seems it offers a few different things with regards to picture & audio to make it a slightly different experience.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  9. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    This film deserves this treatment. It's a beautiful example of using color in film to achieve mood, even if the is the typical Agento mess -- athough it is the closest he came to making a great one.
     
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  10. jwoverho

    jwoverho Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mobile, AL USA
    SUSPIRIA is a genuine masterpiece. Argento’s use of color and creating a dreamlike atmosphere is on full display. This and DEEP RED are for me his greatest achievements, although INFERNO has some brilliant moments (some courtesy of an uncredited Mario Bava).
     
  11. Endymion

    Endymion Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    How refreshing to read some balanced and reasonable postings regarding the two competing Suspiria restorations after reading that nasty thread on blu-ray.com.
    It seems there are only twelve year olds posting there. It's a prime example for what is wrong with discussion forums and social media on the web. Everybody is a know-it-all, repeating his completely subjective opinion ad nauseam and calling everybody who disagrees names.
    Oh...and of course they also all know better than a renowned restoration expert because they have watched so many blu-ray discs. Ridiculous.

    I think both restorations are fine. I got the italian Blu-ray with the TLEFilms restoration for 15 bucks and it looks stunning.
    The Synapse also looks great judging by screenshots and it has better sound.

    As for which restoration is a more accurate representation of the original prints...who knows.
    My money is on the TLEF version because it looks more like a 70s movie, is not contrast boosted like the Synapse and because restoration expert Torsten Kaiser is a sucker for accuracy and dislikes any kind of revisionism. He's a spiritual brother of Steve Hoffman if I may say so.
    The TLEF restoration feels like a Hoffman remaster while the Synapse seems more like a Steven Wilson remix. Both are great, they just tried to achieve different things.
     
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  12. MadMelMon

    MadMelMon Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I've always found this to be an especially curious obsession. You obviously don't want to mess with the original intent, but the "original prints" haven't been seen by anyone in decades, with the exception of that clean print found a couple of years ago. And that one's presumably changed at least a little over the years.

    It's not like music, which (in terms of this discussion at least) is actually owned as a product by the end consumer from the beginning. If you mess with remixes, you're running the very real danger of making an alteration that jars violently with people's ingrained memories of playing it hundreds of times. And ultimately, we're even listening to them in the same way (with the obvious exception of portable audio, which isn't really relevant to the remix/remaster discussion.)

    Films, though? When Suspiria was made idea of home viewing was tenuous at best, surround was an expensive toy that wasn't common at all, and consumer ownership wasn't in the cards in any way. Again, you don't want to mess with the original intent, but there's no way to get "close" to the original presentation the way you can with music, unless you own your own film projector. The best thing to do is represent the existing master as cleanly as possible in the way that suits home video the best. Obsessing over how much it resembles the original prints kinda misses the point, IMHO.
     
  13. TakiJones

    TakiJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fort Lee, N.J.
    Can someone give a link to Barnes and Noble website please.
    All I see is old versions.
     
  14. Endymion

    Endymion Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    You are right if you are talking about the consumer side. However restoration experts like Torsten Kaiser claim that they CAN make a digital master that looks very close to how original prints looked even though no reference "answer prints" exist anymore. They know (or claim to know) how any given film material ages in any given environment. That way they can reconstruct the original look from any surviving film element.
    The more surviving elements you have the more exact can the restoration become.
    Personally I'm not sure the result will be 100% correct but it will be as close as possible.
     
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  15. moops

    moops Forum Resident

    Location:
    Geebung, Australia
    Here's the link for the Synapse steelbook at Barnes & Noble ..... but it's currently out of stock ...... Suspiria

    Currently in stock at Amazon ...... https://www.amazon.com/Suspiria-Blu...65953&creativeASIN=B077MYF46D&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

    And at Diabolikdvd ....... who are currently closed between Xmas & New Year ...... Suspiria (Synapse Steelbook 3 Disc Blu-Ray / CD Combo) – DiabolikDVD
     
  16. TakiJones

    TakiJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fort Lee, N.J.
  17. realkilroy

    realkilroy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    I'm a bit disappointed that none of the editions (Synapse or TLE-based) seems to provide more insights into the way original theatrical release was made. Considering how important the Technicolor dye-process was for the movie.
    According to the guy on blu-ray.com, who's supposed to be close to Synapse, Luciano Tovoli spent months working on it. And no interview? Well... a good opportunity missed.
     
  18. TakiJones

    TakiJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fort Lee, N.J.
    Got mine from Diabolik. Don't really know much about how this is supposed to look, but I think it looks amazing. Very happy
     
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  19. Dave Garrett

    Dave Garrett Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
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  20. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    I read the entire thread at Blu-ray forum for some reason I now forget. Limited edition release and the high price point bring out the vitriol in people, as do coy release date and years of teasing from the US label.

    There is a genuine debate about the color timing. Different approvals don't help. Saying the Synapse is dismissively like Wilson remix isn't quite accurate. I liken it more to 80's Hendrix CDs with warm masters of 3rd gen tapes vs. The recent master tape but compressed versions currently in print.
     
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  21. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Tovoli has 2 text pieces in the Synapse booklet.
     
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  22. Vincent Pereira

    Vincent Pereira New Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    Re: Tovoli's memory. He's recently published a book re: SUSPIRIA and is incredibly detailed in his recollections of how the look they were going for and how it was achieved. You can find it on amazon, title is "On SUSPIRIA and Beyond". SUSPIRIA was never intended to look like "a typical 70s film" as somebody else here suggested. They were intentionally going for the classic 3-strip Technicolor look. It's also weird to see "Argento’s original Technicolor Dye Transfer specification" since Dario wasn't the one working with the lab to perfect the look of the final dye-transfer prints, Tovoli was. American Cinematographer has recently reposted this article that they originally published in their magazine in 2010 (a version of this article is also republished in the booklet included with the Synapse release of SUSPIRIA), and you can get a good glimpse of how specific and involved Tovoli was in coming up with the look, even to the point of having Technicolor Rome remove an element from the printing chain to increase the saturation and contrast of the prints. It's a very illuminating read, and kind of a condenced version of the much more detailed discussion in his new book: Suspiria: Terror in Technicolor - The American Society of Cinematographers

    Vincent Pereira
     
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  23. Vincent Pereira

    Vincent Pereira New Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    See my comment above re: "70s movies" and the look of SUSPIRIA. SUSPIRIA was intentionally designed to NOT look like a "70s movie", but to look like a classic 3-strip Technicolor one. Specifically, Argento asked Tovoli to make it look like the Disney animated classic, SNOW WHITE AND THE SEVEN DWARFS. So let's throw the usual buzz-words like "natural" when it comes to the color look out the window here, and also using the look of other "70s movies" as a benchmark here.

    BTW, there is a difference between having contrast and being "contrast boosted". Actual projected film has contrast, just like the Synapse SUSPIRIA does, and I.B. Technicolor prints had even more contrast than regular Eastmancolor prints. Just because something isn't flat and milky looking doesn't make it "contrast boosted". Synapse's SUSPIRIA Blu-ray has actual depth to the visuals and is pleasing to look at and does a darned good job of looking like "projected film", which is lost in so many film-to-video translations these days.

    Vincent Pereira
     
  24. Endymion

    Endymion Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    I wish the Synapse employees wouldn't join EVERY forum to praise their releases. You are doing more damage to your company than being helpful.
    Also your work is good enough to stand on its own and let the customers form their own opinion about it.
    Joining forums to defend a release against even the slightest critique just comes over as silly and unprofessional to me.
     
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  25. mBen989

    mBen989 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scranton, PA

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