Switching from Denon DL-103 to DL-301mk2 with Cinemags. Advice?

Hey Friends,
I need some advice based on your experience. Here I am with a pair of Cinemag CMQEE-3440A STU's ready to order a DL-103 based on recommendations from many of you here. Then I stumble upon a killer deal on a DL-301mk2 for the same price. I'd love to get that instead because the rig I'm using it in would benefit from the elliptical stylus.

My question is will I have to worry about loading issues if I get the 301 with the Cinemags? I know the 103 will work fine. Maybe I should stick with the original plan?

What experience can you share with me?

Thanks for your time,
Jake

 

DaBump! Does anybody here run a Denon DL-301mk2 cart?

 

I recently purchased a Denon DL-301mk2 cart which I mounted in a Rega P-2 with a modified Rb 250 arm. So far, the DL301 is a very good cartridge for the $$$. What specifics would you like to know? I run mine into a Dynavector P-75 head amp and am trying different loading to see what's best in my system. Right now I'm running at 100 ohms. I will try phono enhancer, 30 ohms and 470 ohms after a bit of a break in. I am also a big fan of an old Grace F9L with a Soundsmith stylus upgrade that I have. It's very competitive to the Denon.

 

Thanks for the sharing. I was interested in any info really! There seams to be a ton of info, reviews and such on the variations of DL-103, not much on the DL-301 series even though it seams like a similar but higher performing cart in as much that it has an elliptical stylus and less resonate metal housing.

 

The DL301 is a high compliance cart. One of my customers used it to great success.

Here is a review
Vinyl Asylum: REVIEW: Denon DL 301 MKII Phono Cartridge by AudioSoul

 

Thanks for the review. The compliance doesn't worry me much since i have enough options and versatile arms to handle almost any weight and cart compliance cart.

Most of the sample i've heard used a head amp instead of a SUT. As I said before I'm using Cinemag SUT. Do tou know what your customer is using for a step-up?

Peace,
Jake

 

My customer used the active step-up amp that I manufacture. The DL301 is kind of tilted a bit toward being a HOMC when compared to a DL103. Go here and you will see that you should have a 15x gain.

 

I use the DL301mkII on a Music Hall MMF-7 into @morinix's Lounge Copla and Lounge LCR phono stage. I think it sounds very good, and compared favorably to my previous cart, a Goldring Eroica H which is at a much higher price point. I bought mine here on the classifieds slightly used at $200, so it was an easy decision to give it a try. I don't have any experience with the 103.

The Denon comes quite close to the Goldring's quality at a much more affordable cost, and is certainly worth trying out IMO. If you're after bass the Denon is a strong performer in that area, I had to readjust my subwoofer once I switched to the Denon.

 

I think it comes down to the arm you want to use. I've A/B'd a 301 vs a 103 in my Audiomods/Rega arm and thought the 301 sounded better. I tried them both in my 12" Jelco and the 103 came out on top. Both were with a Denon AU-340 SUT. I ended up preferring the overall character of the 103 best, so I upgraded to a Zu and paired it with an Auditorium 23 SUT, well worth the leap in price IMO as its truly a match made in heaven.

 

The Zu and an Auditorium 23 SUT is originally what I planned on getting, but since I was forced to upgrade earlier than planned, I decided to go this road and work my way there when the money is there. Thanks for your input. I'll be sure to share my success combo when I get the cart.

Peace,
Jake

 

Just a quick update....
I've had the Denon DL-301mk2 mounted and breaking in on the Jelco arm with and have over 40hrs logged on the cart. Going into the Cinemag 3440AH transformer. (Noticed a big improvment on the transformers after constantly running music through it from my computer with a load)
Also did some tuning of the loading in the SUT. There was a very noticeable high frequency resonate peak. Surprisingly it was a very smooth rise that wasn't grainy. But after playing various records with various styles of music, i noticed the low-mids were hiding, so i knew i'd have to get the jar of resistors and y-cables out.
As an experiment, i hooked up a pair of Shure inline mic transformers. While not a perfect match, the bass and low mids where back where they needed to be (the high frequencies a bit too rolled off). So with some research I found people had success with a 390ohm added to the input of the SUT. I didn't have anything close and wasn't likeing how the sound was getting mangled, so i switched to messing with the output of the SUT. Oddly, the best balanced was reached with 390k across the outputs of the SUT. Now the tone was balanced, but the high mid were at times strident and the low mids a bit sterile.
While breaking in the setup I've been using a random pair of short 75ohm interconnects, just to get the set up rolling while I worked on building some short interconnects from some Belden 4812 with Switchcraft Nickle-over-Brass RCA jacks. (PITA to make btw). Just finished these tonight and swapped them out. The strident high-mids smoothed out instantly but sounded a bit veiled as if the cables were new. Since I know the belden had been used well over 40 years, I flipped the direction of the cable and WALAA, MAGIC! The veil and strident high-mids are gone. Everything is musical and liquid smooth! The tone balance is just right, although i wish the lowest octave was stronger... Oh well, maybe it will open up with more break-in or else it is just inherent in the Cinemag 3440. Makes me wish I would of put up a bit more cash and tried the Cinemag 1254, which I read was a hugh improvment over the 3440. Guess that's what I get for being cheap!

Thanks for the recommendations everybody.
Jake

 

FYI.....I ended up with 470ohm load on my Dynavector P75 for my DL301MK2. That combo sounds great. Good response across the whole range with no peaks or valleys. It gives my old Grace F9L a run for the money even with the Soundsmith stylus. I use both depending on the record. Works for me....

 

Thanks for the info Mr. Grace!

 

Glad it's working out for you. I was wondering if you are still using the Jelco, if so have you tried fluid damping with the 301, and did it improve the sound?

 

Yes! I used the damping on the previous cart i was using on it (Ortofon VMS20mk2) even thought resonance tests with the Hi-Fi News test record stated I didn't need any. The highs and hi-mids lacked focus and acoustic stringed instruments and percussion didn't sound right. Just a little bit did the trick.

Switching to the Denon, i left everything as is in the meantime while breaking the cartridge in, planning on adjusting later. As of now I have 45hrs on the cart and haven't really noticed any sound changes since hour 30. Two nights ago I tweeked the arm height a little. Using playing cards as spacers, the Ortofon was happy with 2 cards. The Denon sounded as if the dynamics were week on the bottom, while the highs were faster on every record I played, so I felt I'd try raising it a smidge. Three playing cards seams like the balance and blend of the instruments and vocal are perfect (pure and life-like.) Four cards started getting veiled.

The damping still sounds about right. I say about because i've only two records in the last two days that made me question it. Such as the George Duke "Faces In Reflection" (MPS Records MC-22018) Mastered by Gilbert Kong (Masterdisk) where synths and percussion have a ton of high frequency fundamental action. A little damping might help the imaging here. I'll experiment with it this weekend after some more break-in time and playing some more familiar records. (Just been playing a bunch of records I picked up yesterday) I'll let you know what I find.

Peace,
Jake

 

I own both a DL-301mk2 and the DL-103.

I started with the 103 since it was the cheapest way for me to try MC carts and found it to sound great on my Technics 1210. After a few months with the 103 I decided to try the 301 which others said would be a better match with the Technics arm. Both carts sound great to me and each does some things better than the other. The 301 is brighter and more analytical sounding which can work nicely on some records. It's also easier to balance on the Technics where the 103 requires a the use of a heavier headshell and the auxiliary counter weight to use. Overall I seem to prefer the sound of the 103 which has a sublime musical tone which is addicting and a certain rightness to the sound which makes me think this is what Vinyl is supposed to sound like.

For Step-up duties I'm using the Lounge Audio Copla to boost the MC signal into the phono input on my Sansui. The nice thing about the Copla is the adjustable trans impedance dial which can be used to tune the gain into the phono amp. It's also inexpensive compared to some MC transformers which is great for those who want to try MC without dropping big bucks. I also have the KAB fluid damper on the Technics which helps with the compliance mis-match on the 103. I highly recommend getting the 103 to try for yourself.