Technics 1200G or Linn Sondek LP12

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Airbus, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    The special Linn tools are the bolt straightener and the Kinky, which is used to set the arm collar of a Linn arm accurately with the spindle.
     
  2. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Yes the LVIII Mk 2 had the same short headshell as the Ekos and the cartridge tags needed a bit of manipulation with some cartridges.

    Yes, the Ekos SE/1, has a longer headshell.
     
  3. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Well worth a read.
    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw07aqOsvvLC-ZAxSHlNxcoz
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  4. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    Randoms likes this.
  5. Newton John

    Newton John Going for the one

    Location:
    Tynedale, UK
    Don’t try to put words in my mouth. I said quite clearly that Classic Rock’s subjective opinion shouldn’t be presented as established fact.

    To outright deny what he said would be expressing a counter opinion as fact - I didn’t do that. There are too many opinions here already.

    You adding your childish personal insult about something from 30+ years ago that had absolutely nothing to do with me doesn’t change anything.
     
    Randoms likes this.
  6. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Analogue 33 1/3
    Digital 33.33(3)!

    Nothing wrong with a bit of trepidation, if it isn't noticeably better, it won't sell!
     
    chacha likes this.
  7. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover....

    Location:
    Maidstone
    £2930+ and still needs an “expert” to set it up brand new out of the box, a joke in today’s world of engineering excellence, especially at its price point.
     
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  8. Newton John

    Newton John Going for the one

    Location:
    Tynedale, UK
    A complete non sequitur. What on earth has that got to do with the comments of mine you quoted?

    You’re just firing off bits of vitriol at random now. Calm down, for goodness sake.
     
  9. That’s interesting. I had the Ovation on my short list when I was shopping for turntables last year. Ultimately it wound up as the runner-up to the SL-1200G, though I never got to compare them directly.
     
  10. 5-String

    5-String Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Great choice. :thumbsup:

    The Technics is more transparent, precise, and energetic while the Clearaudio is more "analogue" and romantic and sounds a little heavier in comparison to the Technics.
    The Ovation is also very upgradable with different choices of tonearms, I got the Magnify tonearm on mine, and the addition of the external periphery ring really takes it to another level.

    For me, it is difficult to choose between the two, I love them both.
     
    snorker likes this.
  11. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    All comparisons are subjective especially as it's rather difficult to do direct comparisons. However without the expensive mods I am confident the older Linns or basic Linn doesn't run with the alternatives I have mentioned. It may have a certain sound that some prefer however. What is fact is the high cost of a Linn with the modifications that likely make it competitive. Even then it is hobbled by sticking to the age old basic design notably the spring arrangement and footfall issues. Also the new bits such as the Lingo 4 have to be fitted by a dealer (Linn won't sell you a kit). This likely adds several hundred pounds to the cost I would think. Lingo 4 is £1400! (cheap compared with their other current options). Contrast that with upgraded power supplies for the likes of Michell Gyro. Then you have to shell out for a Kore or Keel, and are pretty much limited to Linn arms or an old Aro for which the new arm boards are manufactured. So you are locked into an artificially high cost product. Linn are now more about brand exclusivity than ultimate sound quality. Also the iconic look of the deck must come into play for some which for me was the fluted plinth, long gone until recently reintroduced as a special premium option.
     
  12. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    I have to disagree with your opinion very strongly. In 12 years of selling turntables including Linn, Roksan, Michell, Manticore, Systemdek, Rega, and Dual and cartridge and arm set up for multiple more brands, the number of faults from small to large you encountered when a non-franchised dealer or customer had fitted a cartridge and set up an arm was somewhere around one in three.

    Very occasionally who would encounter a problem in the brands I mentioned, but it was commonplace for others to be performing sub-par, sometimes giving very poor performance. On many occasions you would play a piece of music on their turntable first, simply rectify an alignment / tracking error and see the reaction of the customer hearing their deck sounding so much better. Believe me, there is no satisfaction in telling the customer that whoever had fitted the cartridge had bent the cantilever.

    Of course it is possible for a Linn dealer to do a poor job, but if this common, either further training is given, or the turntable account taken away. Linn and most of their dealers try to get equipment to perform to it's potential.

    I find it far more shocking that a dealer would supply a sealed box turntable / arm, take the money and expect the customer to fit a sealed box cartridge. Yes, there videos these days to guide people through this, but from talking to some dealer friends, they still see / hear poorly set up turntables regularly and several bent cantilevers.

    At it's worst case, turntables costing more than a Sondek have arrived sounding worse than a Rega Planar 2. If only the manufacturer had ensured an "expert" had not handed over a sealed box, the customer would have had vastly improved performance and may well have been delighted.
     
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  13. tzh21y

    tzh21y Forum Resident

    Location:
    Buffalo
    If I had to criticize one thing about the new 1200G is it is not as forgiving as some of the other tables i have heard. If its a bad recording, you hear it, a price to pay for precision I guess.
     
  14. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover....

    Location:
    Maidstone
    .....I think the Technics has proved the LP12 is the “emperors new clothes”. Mine was twice the price of the 1200G (complete with Radikal), half the performer and all through the Linn network. If feeling conned manifests itself as vitriol, I’ll accept that observation.
     
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  15. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    So just curious - you recently had a LP12 w/Radikal and sold it for the Technics?
     
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  16. spartree

    spartree Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    I own an LP12 and I believe the supposed need to have an expert set the table up is bogus. I’m sure all the Linn dealers will violently disagree with me. Yeah it takes more care than a basic Rega, but it’s not rocket science and it’s mostly quite intuitive. There is no wizardry, you just have to learn what you need to know.

    Whether that’s a plus or a minus depends on the person. Some people like the convenience of coffee pods while others like to learn how to pull a great shot of espresso from a temperamental but pretty machine. For people in the latter category, the process is often half of the enjoyment.
     
  17. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Yeah seems that way to me as well and if I owned one I would own the tuning and setup as well, and wouldn't complain at all if it was worth it. And if it wasn't worth it, i.e. I'd move on to something better.

    Some people just don't like fiddling with these things, and I can understand, we are all different.
     
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  18. This exactly I know two people who have Linns and they absolutely love them. One is a table repair guru and the other a huge music fan who has a great ear. These tables seem ideal for them.

    I was offered a refurbished LP 12 when I was looking to upgrade but I know how I hate to fiddle around with gear so I went with an RP6 and now have an RP 8. For me it’s about not futzing around very often.
     
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  19. John Moschella

    John Moschella Forum Resident

    Location:
    Christiansburg, VA
    That is the way I feel. Thinking less of a component because it's harder to set up, is shortsighted.
     
  20. I don’t think that is totally fair. Yes thinking less specifically because of the difficulty is probably a bit shortsighted, but if one feels they prefer simplicity, they might not have great impressions of the more difficult components - if that makes sense.
     
  21. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    This is the link I've been trying to find.

    The three part LP12 set up guide is a step by step guide with excellent photographs. Further down the download page is the LP12 product history.

    I would add one comment. LP12s set up properly do not fall out of tune and excepting a very short lived batch of grommets haven't since 1984 when the glued subchassis was introduced.

    Any turntable Linn, Technics, Rega etc, need the cartridge tags and phono plugs cleaned periodically to maintain optimum performance.

    Here is the link to those guides, I think they are interesting to view and read for anyone who has an interest in achieving the best sound. Possibly people can make a more educated decision regarding setting up and the need of a dealer, or not, after reading all three guides.

    Downloads - Cymbiosis
     
  22. tzh21y

    tzh21y Forum Resident

    Location:
    Buffalo
    the dealer I went to had a pile of LP 12's in for a tune up. lol. when I saw that I said to myself, omg...
     
  23. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Sure they weren't in for a Linn clinik or for upgrades?

    In this day and age for a dealer to have a "pile of LP 12's in for a tune up", especially as the majority of owners who have responded here, seem to set up their own turntables, seems highly unlikely.

    A few months ago I bumped into someone whose LP12 I stripped and rebuilt nearly 15 years ago, and he asked if I could tweak it at his house. I still have some tools, but not a jig, so declined. I asked when the deck was last serviced, and he said not since I had, so obviously I asked that apart from replacing the stylus had it had any upgrades - no. So the turntable has been used several times every week and not serviced for well over a decade.

    I asked the obvious question of how does it sound? Excellent, was the reply, the armboard / outer platter had settled slightly, but the bounce was still even. As I knew that the bolts had all been set perfectly to the the top plate and through the grommets, this really didn't suprise me.

    I'm sure if someone spent just a few minutes cleaning the cartridge and phono plugs, a small turn on the suspension nuts to re-level the suspension a little higher, and nip up a few screws, you would get an improvement and the LP12 would perform well for another 10-15 years. The same would be the case for a 10 year old SL1200.

    The guy whose LP12 I was talking about, is a very talented guitarist and still buys and plays a lot of vinyl. The LP12 was, and remains a very enjoyable way of listening to music from vinyl. Apparently after the introduction of the Cirkus bearing / inner platter back in April 1993, the "warm character" of the LP12 had gone, so for the last 25 years, the LP12 hasn't "sounded" like some have described.

    I haven't heard a Technics SL1200 through a well set up, revealing full range system, and until I do will not speculate on relative performance.

    Having owned five LP12s and set up 100s, all of my comments are really to question some of the more extreme opinions, in comparison with my own, and others' real world experience.

    Whatever method and equipment people use, I sincerely hope they enjoy listening to their existing music, and any music not yet discovered.
     
    chacha likes this.
  24. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover....

    Location:
    Maidstone
    Yes, never thought it performed at its price-point and pitch was not good, got suspicious....sold it and suspicions confirmed when 1200g turned up.
     
  25. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    If the pitch of any LP12 from Valhalla, but more noticeably original Lingo onwards is not good, you should be suspicious, very suspicious. For whatever reasons, and of course it should not have happened, your Radikal LP12 obviously wasn't performing as the design intended, because if nothing else, the LP12, performing correctly, should have outstanding pitch.

    In the old days they used to say a happy customer may tell two people, but an unhappy customer 10. With social media, the consequences of an unhappy customer can be devastating.
     
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