The Associates/Billy MacKenzie Appreciation Thread

While I really dislike "Those First Impressions," I like "Waiting For the Loveboat" quite a lot. It's the only post-Rankine single I've ever really been able to get into. True, even on this track Rankine's inventiveness and adventurousness are greatly missed, but I still think this is a cool little song. It's like suave bubblegum, and melodically it's much more memorable and interesting (to these ears) than "Impressions." That chorus is pleasantly soulful, and that cheesy sax line is perfect.

 

As a huge Smiths fan, I'd say that I actually think all four Smiths albums are universally strong, and that they broke up at what was likely the right time. But I do agree with you that there seem to be several parallels between the Mackenzie/Rankine and Morrissey/Marr partnerships. Like you said, both involved pairings of inventive/unique poet/singers with guitarists/musicians of exceptional skill, and both duos created something incredibly distinctive. And maybe it's possible that Mackenzie and Rankine actually split at the right time, but I suppose we'll never know. Their time seemed so short, in retrospect, that it's hard not to wonder if they had another album in them.

 

Billy MacKenzie speaks about the split in this interview with Record Mirror.

 

Just a bump, really. This is when I knew things had gone wrong, with these singles. I agree Billy should not have continued with the "Associates" moniker.

The labels were still pumping out lots of versions of these tunes, and at the time I picked up most of them.

I have to agree with whover posted that the "Waiting For The Loveboat" slight return mix is the best. Again, refer to "Popera", it's all there.

I totally disagree with anyone that says this period was the end of good BM music, it was simply what it was - a transition.

 

The Associates - Breakfast/Breakfast Alone released January 1985

7" Breakfast 4.27/Breakfast Alone 5.45 (WEA, YZ 28)
12" Breakfast 5.33//Breakfast Alone 5.45/Kites [re-recording] 5.48 (WEA, YZ 28T)


Breakfast was the third and final single from Perhaps, all three being released before the album was available, and this signalled a return to form; it was the only single of the three I bought at the time. I'd go as far as to say it matches anything from the Rankine era, a terrific, sweeping torch song, possibly too leftfield to make any impact on the chart; it only reached no 49, but for me at least remains one of the classic 80s and Associates singles. It also has great lyrics, and a spectacular chord change at the point where he sings "since when did you cook breakfast for, Lieutenant Paul in ruined Mirador, this lease on life can tie you down, so precious is the jagged crown". (lyrics which he would return to on his final album Beyond The Sun, on the track Winter Academy.) A real highlight on a magnificent song which I never tire of: classic Billy MacKenzie.

Quite an interesting, and extended version of Kites on the 12". I probably prefer the 39 Lyon Street version, which is a straightforward cover, but this take tries to do something different with the song. I'm surprised it was only a bonus on the 12", it would have made a better B-side than the Breakfast Alone instrumental.

Breakfast Promo Video

Breakfast Album Version

Breakfast (Oxford Road Show)

Breakfast (Riverside)

Kites (12" Version)

 

While it's nothing like what he did with Alan Rankine, Breakfast is a first-rate composition and performance. Love it. If he had followed this track til the end of his career I would have been satisfied. (Although there is more of this style to come later, not to jump ahead!)

 

This song is pretty 'meh' for me; it just doesn't really do much for me. Similar to the previous two singles, it's totally unlike anything Billy ever did with Rankine, further affirming my belief that he should have ditched the Associates moniker. It's sad - he had such an amazing voice, and yet here he was, suddenly singing over such bland music.

Also, I much prefer the 39 Lyon Street version of Kites.

 

My second favourite track on Perhaps, right behind The Stranger In Your Voice. I find it incredibly sad and moving, more so than any Scott Walker song I can think of, and I enjoy revelling in that sadness from time to time. My only gripe is the bland(ish) drum machine backing during the strings fadeout, but otherwise it's perfect.

I can't really hear the "spectacular" chord change around "since when did you cook breakfast for..." To me the three verses sound identical chord-wise, although Billy does modulate a little. Either way, goosebumps all around!

 

I forgot to post another version of Breakfast, which appeared on the Heart Of Glass CD single, produced by Human League producer Martin Rushent. It's possibly a demo version, although it sounds a bit more intricate than a typical demo.

Breakfast (Martin Rushent version)

 

Wow, interesting! I'd never heard that version. Seems like MacKenzie hasn't fully worked out the tune yet (the aforementioned "since when did you cook breakfast for..." verse sounds a lot less spine-tingling here). I like the fact that the piano is a bit quieter than on the final mix, though I don't quite understand why this version is called "Martin Rushent version". I always thought the Perhaps version was also produced by Rushent, but then there were quite a few producers involved, so I may have missed something.

 

Good version of the song, even though I have the 3" cd single of Heart Of Glass, I never played that song much. I always put it on for the excellent non-lp track "Her Only Wish" that is only found on this cd.

http://www.discogs.com/Associates-Heart-Of-Glass/release/562006

 

Four producers: Martin Rushent, Martyn Ware, Dave Allen and Greg Walsh. The "Martin Rushent version" is my mistake. It's questionable whether it's a demo or not, maybe "alternate take" is a better description.

 

The Associates - Perhaps released 9th February 1985

Tracklisting

01. Those First Impressions 4.41
02. Waiting for the Loveboat 6.55
03. Perhaps 6.32
04. Schampout 6.02
05. Helicopter Helicopter 4.07
06. Breakfast 5.31
07. Thirteen Feelings 4.39
08. The Stranger in Your Voice 6.15
09. The Best of You 5.37
10. Don't Give Me That 'I Told You So' Look 5.12

cassette side A:

01. Those First Impressions 8.06 (extended remix)
02. Waiting for the Loveboat (extended) 8.18
03. Perhaps 6.33
04. Schampout 6.03
05. Helicopter Helicopter 4.08
06. Perhaps (instrumental) 7.15

cassette side B:

07. Breakfast 5.33
08. Thirteen Feelings 4.39
09. The Stranger in Your Voice 6.17
10. The Best of You 5.37 [remixed by Billy MacKenzie/Daven Allen]
11. Don't Give Me That I Told You So Look 5.13
12. Breakfast Alone 5.45
13. Thirteen Feelings (instrumental) 4.18
14. The Stranger in Your Voice (instrumental) 6.21

Perhaps (Schizophrenic Version)

Perhaps (Live At Birmingham Powerhouse)

The Stranger In Your Voice

Thirteen Feelings

Don't Give Me That "I Told You So" Look

The Best Of You (demo w/Annie Lennox)

Billy MacKenzie Interview Live At Studio One

Band

Billy MacKenzie - Vocals
Steve Reid - Guitars
Howard Hughes - Keyboards
Roberto Soave - Bass on "Thirteen Feelings", "The Stranger In Your Voice" and "The Best Of You"
Steve Goulding - Drums on "Schampout" and "Helicopter Helicopter"
Jim Russell - Percussion on "Schampout"
Ian Mcintosh - Guitar on "Those First Impressions"
Eddi Reader - Vocals on "The Best Of You"


Nine months after the release of the first single, Those First Impressions, Perhaps was finally released, and was the first Associates album not to feature Alan Rankine. From memory, I think keyboard player Stephen Betts (aka Howard Hughes) was the main songwriting collaborator with Billy MacKenzie on the album. At the time I probably felt this was a disappointment after the Rankine years. I had only bought the Breakfast single, and I believe it took me a good few weeks to buy the album proper. It was a smoother sounding album production wise, and as has been stated before, the band had lost its cutting edge since Rankine left. Also, at this time, there were lots of releases and competition from other bands, maybe Perhaps got lost in all the competition; I know it happened with me because I pretty much filed it away after a couple of months and played it only rarely. If I were to play an Associates record back then, the Rankine version would have taken precedence. Today I've changed my mind; I think it's a strong album with some great tracks: I can't remember enthusing over The Stranger In Your Voice, The Best Of You and Thirteen Feelings the way I do now. Sure, there are a couple of tracks I could live without; I've never really warmed to Loveboat or Helicopter Helicopter, but I consider at least half of the album to be pretty much essential, and it's one which I consider to have stood the test of time. I probably miss the experimental touches Rankine brought to the band, and indeed could have brought here; if I have one criticism it's a bit too slick for my liking, but apart from that, it's a worthy successor to Sulk in hindsight.

 

Perhaps related interview with the Melody Maker conducted when the the album was due out in October '84.

 

Thanks for posting the interview!

I keep meaning comment on Perhaps, but as it is a record that I seldom listen to, I really need to find some time to sit down and listen to it before commenting. Should be able to get around to this soon. The only two songs I've ever truly liked from this album are "Waiting For the Love Boat" and "Don't Give Me That 'I Told You So' Look." I always grew impatient with the rest of the album, so I'm going to sit down and force myself to get through as much of it as I can.

 

It's an album I have listened to a lot since I started this thread, probably more in the last few months than I did during the 25 years after the album's initial release. I put it down to the amount of releases I was listening to at the time, and it getting lost in the deluge. Or maybe it makes more sense to me now; I can't remember being that enamoured with The Best Of You or the title track Perhaps at the time, but now I think they are excellent. There's an interview I linked to above @Studio One, and the interviewer, Muriel Gray, says she considers the album sounds unlike anything else, totally unique, and there is some truth in that, even though I hear a strong Sparks influence, particularly in the vocal. I'm not exactly sure why I've warmed to it after all these years, but I suspect it's to do with the voice, which I probably took for granted back then, but since it is no longer around, has probably taken on an extra significance, and also with the knowledge that very few voices have been able to affect me in a way Billy MacKenzie does, and which is the reason I've re-evaluated his music, and Perhaps in particular.

 

I really enjoyed that interview too - far more articulate and revealing than anything you'd read in the current music press, that is if it exists any more. There were quite a few interviews done around Perhaps and it would be great if someone subscribed to Rock's Back Pages and the like could post at least some of them.

Like I've said elsewhere I think Perhaps defined what MacKenzie was all about in person, even if some of the material may be considered a little sub-par by Associates standards. I enjoy at least two thirds of the album (favourite tracks: The Stranger In Your Voice (both vocal and instrumental), Breakfast and the 12" version Those first impressions - least favourite: Helicopter Helicopter, but still okay) and I had the cassette version on constant replay when I re-decorated my flat a few years ago. I remember reading an interview with Alan Rankine about ten years ago where he said he considered it a weak album, with the exception of two or three tracks. He praised the title track in particular in that he thought it was a rather complex piece that obviously had required a lot of work.

To quote from Steve Sutherland's sleeve notes for Popera:

(...) There were more tales of stress and strain and over-indulgence, megalomania and mischievous mindgames circulating about The Associates in the mid-eighties. More tricks than a wagonload of monkeys. Rankine quit but there was Perhaps, an altogether more romantic LP, Billy in a movie, checking mirrors for creases in his clothes and wrinkles in his soul. Billy was about to discover the true adventue of The Associates was to stay forever young and his gorgeous anxiety achieved a kind of operatic calm on the reflective Those First Impressions and jaunty Waiting For The Love Boat (...)

Since I knew very little about the enigmatic L. Howard Hughes but always liked his work on Perhaps and Peter Murphy's first solo album, I googled him and found his website. He seems like a very humble and self-deprecating chap. About Billy and the Associates he says the following:

A Career in Pop

If you've come here because you've listened to Pete Murphy or The Associates, then
you'll be familiar with my role in those bands. Here's what led to that:

I got into the music business after I left College in 1978.

I formed a band called The Books and we signed to Logo/RCA records and Virgin Music.
Three singles and an album, Expertise all produced by Colin Thurston, one
tour of England supporting The Skids.

Here's a picture of the Cassette version
http://www.discogs.com/release/715624

I floated about a bit after that and then decided to adopt the stage name Howard Hughes
because I was fed up with people not remembering my name.
Some time around 1981, a journalist called Jessamy Calkin did an interview with me
for New Sounds New Styles Magazine, and then recommended me to Peter Kent at 4AD
who was involved with putting the Associates touring band together.

The tour didn't happen but I got another call inviting me to Basing street studios to do the
piano session on a track called Breakfast for their new album and that's how I started
working with Billy Mackenzie. It was great. Billy was radical and exciting and funny.
You can read all about him and how it all was in Tom Doyle's The Glamour Chase.

http://www.anemonehoneymoon.com/SteveBettshome.html

 

And from Paul Lester's obituary in Uncut:

(...)This comeback spilled over into '85 with the release of the Perhaps LP, a fabulous though far more composed affair than Sulk, the recording of which was both difficult and protracted (there were several producers, including Martin Dare Rushent and Martyn Ware, with whom Billy had, in '81, recorded a version of Bowie's "The Secret Life Of Arabia" for BEF's Music Of Quality And Distinction Volume 1), rumours of tantrums and budgets being exceeded doing little to improve Billy's rapidly deteriorating relationship with WEA.

There were also the parallel problems in his personal life, what he referred to as "the carnage of the Trainspotting heroin trip" he was on in London, where, apparently, he was living a hand-to-mouth existence in a squat, having seemingly squandered all his money (he was declared bankrupt in 1995).

"There was so much heroin going about," he told me, and the contrast with the exotic young god on the sleeve of Sulk couldn't be more stark. "So many friends and musicians had taken over Georgiana Street, in Camden, really heavy heroin stuff. There were a lot of deaths. (...)

 

I gave Perhaps a couple of spins over the weekend, and I can still say it's definitely not an album that I love. Apart from what I see are the best tracks, "Waiting For the Love Boat" and "Don't Give Me That I Told You So Look," I do like "The Stranger In Your Face," as well as "Thirteen Feelings." Those two have a nice cinematic sweep to them, and are melodically engaging while still being unique and interesting.

The rest of the album is pretty 'meh' for me. "Breakfast" sounds like the melodramatic Russian soap-opera music that's often blasting from my Russian neighbor's apartment next door. "The Best Of You" is kind of nagging. The rest of it is just not very interesting to me. Rankine is sorely missed, and like I said earlier, I think it would've made much more sense had Billy ditched the Associates moniker and gone under his own name. This simply isn't the Associates anymore. But when all is said and done, I still like about half the album, so it'll always have a place in my collection.

 

Looking at the discography, Take Me To The Girl is the next single, and then there's a two and a year gap between it and the follow up Heart Of Glass! I had stopped buying Associates records by then, so it's all going to be "in hindsight" from now on, and apart from The Rhythm Divine, I haven't heard any of the Yello stuff. There are a few good albums to come though, and the next one will be The Glamour Chase, even though it was only released in 2004, 16 years after its scheduled 1988 release.

 

Great thread so far, I'm really enjoying it. Yes, there's lots of stuff to come, and The Glamour Chase is a great album, imho.

You're doing a great job!

 

The best representation of the _Perhaps_ tracks is on the Radio One Sessions compilations: Breakfast, Don't Give Me That..., Helicopter Helicopter, Perhaps, Waiting For The Love Boat - all are FAR superior to the album versions.

 

I forgot to add that even if you aren't crazy about the Perhaps album, there is a really good reason to get it on cd - it comes paired with the unreleased The Glamour Chase album, the 1st official release of that album and the only Perhaps cd release as well. A smashing 2-fer, I think.

I'm re-listening to Perhaps as I type - I haven't listened to it in years, and if I have any thoughts that haven't already been expressed I'll post them shortly.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Glamour-Chase-P...370504389330?pt=Music_CDs&hash=item5643c852d2

 

I like Perhaps much more than I thought I would, or remembered it. Billy's vocals are excellent, and many of the tunes are great as well. It would have been nice if Alan had hung around a bit longer to put his spin on things, as it were, but all in all, a keeper for sure.
Many of the musical arrangements are a bit dated, etc., as others have said, but I feel Billy's voice surpasses that factor.

If any of you don't have this 2cd set, I suggest grabbing it quick. If it's not already out of print, it soon will be. Plus you'll want to know what we are all raving about when we get to "The Glamour Chase" album!