The Birds, The Bees & The Monkees mono source for the Rhino deluxe?

Hi all, I read on a thread here that the most of the original mono masters for BB&M have gone missing and as a result, Rhino had to use a clean Vinyl source for the mono portion of their deluxe box released several years back. Can anyone verify that this is true?

 

Hi, Yes i do believe they could not locate the mono master at the time, And had to use a mint vinyl source for most of the album.
I think Daydream believer, Tapioca tundra and Valleri were from the master tapes..Maby a couple others.

It would be great if the tapes were found since the release of the deluxe set, But RHINO did a great job with what they had to work with, And i originally didn't know most of the album was a needledrop as it sounds that good! PEACE!

 

Wow, so interesting that Rhino was able to acquire the original mono masters for the previous five releases (i'm assuming these were not mint vinyl sources as well) but not for BB&M. I just finished listening to my original vinyl mono copy i bought about 18 or so years ago and it is always such a fun, cool listen. My copy is pretty close to near mint. I got lucky in finding it.

 

I remember hearing that the mono master tape to Zor and Zam exists, and was used on the Handmade set.

 

They may have sourced a 78rpm for "Magnolia Simms".

 

Auntie's Municipal Court is just stellar in the mono mix. It blows away the stereo mix.

 

I had a chance back in the 1980's to buy a really nice used mono copy of BB&M for something like $10.99 at my local used record store, But not knowing at the time just how rare that record was, I passed for something else.
I already had a minty copy in stereo.

Boy am i kicking myself now!

 

Oh man, I bet you are. I have never ever seen that album anywhere in the wild. And in all these years, I have only seen it once on ebay. I read somewhere, I think it may have been in the Rhino liner notes to the original CD release from the 90's that Colgems/RCA wound up recalling and destroying a lot of the mono copies they pressed for some strange reason.

 

This one I don't think will be as rare and as sought out in the future In terms of demand, there is only a finite amount of Monkees fans as this point and the fan base isn't growing like the Beatles fan base still is. These will show back up in the wild eventually. They aren't going to sit in a 55+ year old man's house forever.

 

I never knew that.
Well that would explain why so few Mono copies of BB&M still exist.

I still wonder what happened to the Mono master tape of the lp.

Did It just get missplaced over the years, Or did Colgems/RCA just scrap it because of the Mono phase out?

I find it hard to believe that the Mono tapes for the first four Monkees albums still exist, But the BB&M tape was destroyed?

Yea, At that used record shop they would stock numerous copies of each Monkees title, Along with other artists, And that Mono copy of COM 109 was the ONLY one they had.

At the time, I wanted whatever title i could find of the Monkees in stereo.

But hey, What did i know at the time? I was still a kid.
I never knew at the time about punchier mixes & Song Variants with some of the mono LP's.

Luckily, I did get that BB&M Deluxe box so i can hear what i have been missing all these years!

 

The needledrop used for the offifical release is very meidocre. There is a far better fan drop doing the rounds.

 

As does "Tapioca Tundra" - it was a real revelation for me to finally hear some bottom end after years of listening to the weak stereo mix.

 

I did a CD burn from a 7&1/2 ips reel-to-reel of The Wichita Train album back in the late 90's. It's far superior to the original one Nez was offering on his site before he did a remix. His CD was from an LP source since the masters for that album are gone.

 

It's a mixture of tapes & vinyl, covered n this forum & online q & a by Andrew

I asked him n 2014 monkees con, he confirmed it

 

The masters were located 4 the remix?

 

Maybe yes, maybe no. Clearly some of it was cobbled together from different tapes for the 2-CD deluxe editions. Proof of this is that they used the wrong mix of "Your Auntie Grizelda" on the mono version of More Of The Monkees. I think it's highly unlikely that the mono Birds tape was deliberately destroyed, but I can certainly believe it could have been lost or misplaced, given the issues Bill Inglot and Andrew Sandoval have had over the years trying to gather together all of the master tapes for the various albums and singles. In the 1980s, when the first four were re-released on vinyl by Rhino, the first album (The Monkees) and Pisces were obviously problematic because they used a combination of original stereo, original mono and stereo remix tapes from the multitracks. The 1985-86 Rhino vinyl reissues differ from the 1987/1989 Arista CDs, which differ from the 1994-95 Rhino CDs. From what I gather, tapes were with Arista, RCA, Sony and music publishers, scattered all around the world in some cases.

As far as mono copies of Birds/Bees having been recalled and destroyed, I have never heard that before. However, it was the last Monkees album to be pressed in mono in the United States, as mono was being phased out once the issue of mono and stereo phonograph needle compatibility was solved. I can imagine that fewer mono copies might have been pressed; I wonder if there are any available figures on that. And also, the Monkees' albums were all deleted when their label shut down. Did those albums end up in the cut-out bins? (I think I have read reports to that effect.) But how many were left? I don't know what standard practice would have been for RCA in that era. Maybe a bunch of them were junked? Does anyone know? (All I can tell you is that by the 1980s, Present and Changes were scarce and expensive if you found one. Changes in particular was so obscure that one rock discography book listed it under "compilations." But this was pre-ebaY.)

 

I can tell you that I picked up copies of Present, Greatest Hits, and Barrel Full Of in the the cut out bins around 71-2. No marks on them. K Mart I think it was. Like 2 bucks each. I still have my copy of Present, well worn and well loved.

 

In 1976 i sent away for that Laurie House double lp greatest hits that was advertised on tv at the time.
I just remember that some of the songs sounded really bad compared to the original releases.

Kind of grainy and dull. I guess even back then they used whatever source that they could find.
Great hits comp, But the jacket was CHEAP!

I found my first sealed copy of Headquarters in the late 1970's through a mail order outfit for like $8.00
In mono mint sealed.

I'm guessing someone found a case of sealed Monkees lp's that were stored in a warehouse somewhere?
As the dealer had quite a few sealed copy's of Headquarters for sale.

These were the original first pressings without the guys with beards on the back cover.
I never saw any sealed Monkees lp's on the store shelves in my area..Not even the early 70's.

Just that Arista Greatest hits comp from 76.

 

Sorry for straying a bit off topic, But after i got home from work today, I saw that my two sealed ARISTA cassette tapes of Headquarters & Pisces arrived from ebay!

Pisces Aquarius Capricorn & Jones Ltd. by The Monkees CASSETTE-- SEALED

The Monkees - Headquarters - Cassette - SEALED


Just checked both and look like they will still play even after what 30 years?( I bought these to play in the cassette player in my car)

I don't even remember these coming out in the 80's, Just the RHINO cassettes & Vinyl.
I'm guessing they were released before RHINO bought the Monkees catalogue.

So are there any remixes included in the ARISTA reissues for these two titles?
I suppose ARISTA must have released the first two albums on cassette as well.

 

The Arista Headquarters CD has all remixes.

The Arista Pisces CD has original mixes on tracks 3, 4, 10, 11, and 13. The rest of the tracks are remixes.

 

Not the master tape, but Nez still had the multi-track session tapes. He used those for the remix.

 

Interesting that they wound up in cut out bins potentially, because I've never seen any of the original Colgems albums with cutouts in any form.
I remember in 1984, I had a want list in a local used record store and on that list was Changes. The store owner told me he had never come across a copy before. Luckily I got a call from him a few months later after he tracked down a copy. It cost me $60 back then. Pretty costly at the time, but well worth it considering it's minty condition and scarcity.

 

Rose Records out of Chicago had a mail order catalog and in 1978 or 1979 I ordered two sealed but cut-out copies of "Changes" which were $3.99 each. Still have them. There's a very small cut near the top left corner on each. Minty vinyl to this day.

They were also both on the original Colgems label. My other copy that was bought for me in 1970 when it came out had the updated Colgems label on it.

 

Thanks for the info.
Looks like i have some cool remixed jams driving to work tommorow!

 

Aren't those a better source than a master??