the contentious subject of speaker cables

I run mine this way, the caffeine always gives a more robust lively sound.

 

Clearly Kevin, it's all in your mind!

Why, I'd swear after I wash my car, it runs better too.

Speaking of which, I hope you washed those clips before inserting them. And how in the heck do you take a sip with those things in the way, anyway? Nothing should be allowed in the way of coffee!!

CJ

 

That depends on cable configuration. There are known issues with Litz-type speaker cables from a few years back that had high capacitance and caused some amplifiers to become unstable/oscillate at high power.

 

That was an issue discussed in the literature that came with some Goertz speaker cables I once bought. They worked OK with my amp, but a careful trial was recommended.

 

I wish someone would explain why a speaker cable requires 30 to 50 hours of breakin time. It's a wire, not a moving part, or even a piece of electronics. Oh, and the uber cables require 150 to 300 hours of breakin. Is that so I forget what my cheapo 10awg copper wires sound like? I wonder if clearview would send me a set of speaker cables to preview.

/holding breath

 

Here's a start. I trust you haven't passed out yet......

Cable Break-in




There are many factors that make cable break-in necessary and many reasons why the results vary. If you measure a new cable with a voltmeter you will see a standing voltage because good dielectrics make poor conductors. They hold a charge much like a rubbed cat’s fur on a dry day. It takes a while for this charge to equalize in the cable. Better cables often take longer to break-in. The best "air dielectric" techniques, such as PFA tube construction, have large non-conductive surfaces to hold charge, much like the cat on a dry day.


Cables that do not have time to settle, such as musical instrument and microphone cables, often use conductive dielectrics like rubber or carbonized cotton to get around the problem. This dramatically reduces microphonics and settling time, but the other dielectric characteristics of these insulators are poor and they do not qualify sonically for high-end cables. Developing non-destructive techniques for reducing and equalizing the charge in excellent dielectric is a challenge in high end cables.

The high input impedance necessary in audio equipment makes uneven dielectric charge a factor. One reason settling time takes so long is we are linking the charge with mechanical stress/strain relationships. The physical make up of a cable is changed slightly by the charge and visa versa. It is like electrically charging the cat. The physical make up of the cat is changed by the charge. It is "frizzed" and the charge makes it's hair stand on end. "PFA Cats", cables and their dielectric, take longer to loose this charge and reach physical homeostasis.


The better the dielectric's insulation, the longer it takes to settle. A charge can come from simply moving the cable (Piezoelectric effect and simple friction), high voltage testing during manufacture, etc. Cable that has a standing charge is measurably more microphonic and an uneven distribution of the charge causes something akin to structural return loss in a rising impedance system. When I took steps to eliminate these problems, break-in time was reduced and the cable sounded generally better. I know Bill Low at Audioquest has also taken steps to minimize this problem.


Mechanical stress is the root of a lot of the break-in phenomenon and it is not just a factor with cables. As a rule, companies set up audition rooms at high end audio shows a couple of days ahead of time to let them break in. The first day the sound is usually bad and it is very stressful. The last day sounds great. Mechanical stress in speaker cables, speaker cabinets, even the walls of the room, must be relaxed in order for the system to sound its best. This is the same phenomenon we experience in musical instruments. They sound much better after they have been played. Many musicians leave their instruments in front of a stereo that is playing to get them to warm up. This is very effective with a new guitar. Pianos are a stress and strain nightmare. Any change, even in temperature or humidity, will degrade their sound. A precisely tuned stereo system is similar.


You never really get all the way there, you sort of keep halving the distance to zero. Some charge is always retained. It is generally in the MV range in a well settled cable. Triboelectric noise in a cable is a function of stress and retained charge, which a good cable will release with both time and use. How much time and use is dependent on the design of the cable, materials used, treatment of the conductors during manufacture, etc.


There are many small tricks and ways of dealing with the problem. Years ago, I began using PFA tube "air dielectric" construction and the charge on the surface of the tubes became a real issue. I developed a fluid that adds a very slight conductivity to the surface of the dielectric. Treated cables actually have a better measured dissipation factor and the sound of the cables improved substantially. It had been observed in mid eighties that many cables could be improved by wiping them with a anti-static cloth. Getting something to stick to PFA was the real challenge. We now use an anti-static fluid in all our cables and anti-static additives in the final jacketing material. This attention to charge has reduced break-in time and in general made the cable sound substantially better. This is due to the reduction of overall charge in the cable and the equalization of the distributed charge on the surface of conductor jacket.


It seems there are many infinitesimal factors that add up. Overtime you find one leads down a path to another. In short, if a dielectric surface in a cable has a high or uneven charge which dissipates with time or use, triboelectric and other noise in the cable will also reduce with time and use. This is the essence of break-in

A note of caution. Moving a cable will, to some degree, traumatize it. The amount of disturbance is relative to the materials used, the cable's design and the amount of disturbance. Keeping a very low level signal in the cable at all times helps. At a show, where time is short, you never turn the system off. I also believe the use of degaussing sweeps, such as on the Cardas Frequency Sweep and Burn-In Record (side 1, cut 2a) helps.


A small amount of energy is retained in the stored mechanical stress of the cable. As the cable relaxes, a certain amount of the charge is released, like in an electroscope. This is the electromechanical connection.


Many factors relating to a cable's break-in are found in the sonic character or signature of a cable. If we look closely at dielectrics we find a similar situation. The dielectric actually changes slightly as it charges and its dissipation factor is linked to its hardness. In part these changes are evidenced in the standing charge of the cable. A new cable, out of the bag, will have a standing charge when uncoiled. It can have as much as several hundred millivolts. If the cable is left at rest it will soon drop to under one hundred, but it will takes days of use in the system to fall to the teens and it never quite reaches zero. These standing charges appear particularly significant in low level interconnects to preamps with high impedance inputs.


The interaction of mechanical and electrical stress/strain variables in a cable are integral with the break-in, as well as the resonance of the cable. Many of the variables are lumped into a general category called triboelectric noise. Noise is generated in a cable as a function of the variations between the components of the cable. If a cable is flexed, moved, charged, or changed in any way, it will be a while before it is relaxed again. The symmetry of the cable's construction is a big factor here. Very careful design and execution by the manufacturer helps a lot. Very straight forward designs can be greatly improved with the careful choice of materials and symmetrical construction. Audioquest has built a large and successful high-end cable company around these principals.


The basic rules for the interaction of mechanical and electrical stress/strain variables holds true, regardless of scale or medium. Cables, cats, pianos and rooms all need to relax in order to be at their best. Constant attention to physical and environmental conditions, frequent use and the degaussing of a system help it achieve and maintain a relaxed state.


A note on breaking in box speakers, a process which seems to take forever. When I want to speed up the break-in process, I place the speakers face to face, with one speaker wired out of phase and play a surf CD through them. After about a week, I place them in their normal listening position and continue the process for three more days. After that, I play a degaussing sweep a few times. Then it is just a matter of playing music and giving them time.

 

there were variations I thought though in the Litz type cables. One where they used the proper braided insulated wire and other where they were not braided and not deemed to be effective. I'm reaching way back into the memory banks here - so take with a grain of salt. Might have to look that up later.

 

I forgot to mention that these reasons are very similar to the reasons why Nelson Pass advises that his Preamps, in my case a Phono Stage, be warmed, broken-in and constantly powered-up. Direct from the designers mount. Ok, keyboard.

 

When I was at university many moons ago (studying physics), one of our experimental components was the design of speaker enclosures, measuring the response to impulses.

As we had access to the experimental set-up, we evacuated a bell enclosure (to as close a vacuum as we could get) so we could directly measure the effect of the enclosures with no "external" forces. We ended up being able to measure the speaker cone breakdown with respect to frequency. This was proportional to the current driving the cone under load. The higher the frequency, the cone broke down and created distortions on its surface. All expected and predicted by fluid mechanics. As we now had a measurable effect, we decided to change cables to see if there was a change in the distortions on the speaker cone. We didn't have these fancy hi-tech cables, but we various forms. Standard mains cable, solid core, single strand, twisted pair. The observation was, multi-core cabling had a higher breakdown at upper frequencies (>10k). The only explanation we could rationalise on this was some form of electron migration between the cable strands creating a field effect, increasing resistance etc.

As far as hi-tech cables, i'm on the fence. The effect I believe is caused by how the cable's impedance changes under load with respect to frequency driving the speaker. Why I am on the fence is that as you increase load (i.e, turn the amp up), the amplifier tends to move out of linear behaviour, so signal distortion is going to go up, creating distortions on the speaker cone.

 

Not yet, later after a few drinks maybe....


I can see the effect a breakin of a mechanical type part (eg. motor/speaker/etc.) but how much is really perceived in the normal system/ears or even moving up the food chain of quality components. Swapping a cd, turntable, pre, amp all have very pronounced changes in the sound. Speaker cables always fell into the realm of "voodoo" to me in this regards. I'd love the opportunity to try a high end of speaker cables to hear the differences. If there were "reasonable" prices for said cables maybe some of the voodoo would go away as a larger percentage of users would be able to try/own/etc.

Comparing the Axiom bulk 12 awg speaker cable to Beldin 10 awg at the same price do you hear a difference? What about comparing them to one of the "high end" speaker cables where the prices just skyrocket per foot. Is there one that everyone will go "wow! that made a huge difference in sound!" or even not so much of a pronounced change but one where 7 out of 10 would hear and say yes, it sounds better? How much does the mind influence the perceived difference also in cables? If you spent $1000 for the same length of cable that I paid $20 for, wouldn't you want/need/imagine a bit a difference? That's what I love about the blind tests that are performed. Use me for an example - with the system I have listed in my profile what would be a speaker cable I would go WOW over for my speakers and that was well worth the price? Or would this be another subjective matter depending on conditions/person listening/etc. etc. etc. more of a toss up then a grandslam?

PLEASE don't misinterpret that I'm giving you a hard time - I genuinely want to know/learn (call it the engineer in me) and your posting is wonderful. A lot of reading and quite a few questions that I can research for my own personal enrichment. I think that some of the Canadian speaker companies and how the Canadian govt. makes it easier for companies to open up show and allow research is amazing and a benefit to everyone in the community. Companies like Axiom/Energy/Paradigm etc. etc. give a great bang to the buck. Plus the cost savings with dealing with mailorder speaker companies just adds value to the consumer through better products for a cheaper price.

Anywho... ran out of things to say

 

Good to remember that the “all amps sound the same” camp is still out there, alive and well. Are there any “all speakers sound the same” people?

 

Right!, Very similar to how with a woofer and a coil ( inductor) we must account for the impedance change, from the built in resistance of the coil.

Obviously changes occur easier with higher impedance and with higher frequency.

That is why using high frequencies as the bench mark, it is easy to be able to see any change at all. Changes lower in frequency by their very nature will be impeded lesser and lesser.

 

lol yea... it is pretty difficult to tell the difference in sound between a B&W 802 and RadioShack Optimus speakers.

Comparing my old Emotiva amp to my Parasound gives a clear (and very noticeable difference in sound). Or VPI Classic to Technics 1200 - the same. Even my old AV123 speakers to the Martin Logans I have.

 

Well, but some active devices like jfets etc may be more linear at a given operating temperature, but I really don't think this applies to cables...

 

True.

 

I just don't worry about cables and wire. I'm a LRC guy. I know my own ear/brain is entirely susceptible to placebo/confirmation bias. So I just got Blue Jeans cables and will never worry about it ever again. Gives me more time to enjoy what I have w/out fussing over such things. As I said, this works for me and far be it from me to impose my own approach on someone else.

 

Ok, first things first: I'd recommend the Victory Hop Wallop for that drink. Should be close-by right? Love me some Hop Devil too.

Secondly, if you're in "SE PA" you should be living at The Cable Company in New Hope. They have a lending library, gobs of products and great used deals. Not a plug, just trying to facilitate you conversion:
http://www.thecableco.com/default.aspx

I can't explain through language what anyone is supposed to hear, that's been done many times and much more eloquently than I am capable of doing. However, I think it's important to recognize that cables are not just "wire", there are other components almost as important to the overall design that contribute to their performance. And the "dielectric" design is one of those, along with the type and purity of the wire, the loadings associated with the wire, the type of termination, and so on. Cables do indeed exhibit differences in their capability to deliver broadband frequency response, especially in the low-end and they can differ dramatically in their introduction of distortion.

I've got several pair of "voodoo" cables and each one imparts a noticeable difference to the playback chain but they all have sonically evident benefits over whatever "non-voodoo" cables may be. I think it's wrong to categorically discount high-end cables due to their price. You said:

"If there were "reasonable" prices for said cables maybe some of the voodoo would go away as a larger percentage of users would be able to try/own/etc."

There are plenty of "reasonably" priced cables out there that deliver sonic improvements. The OP bore that out in his post. I can't afford a Ferrari but I accept that it may drive "better" that my stupid BMW.

I would not want to be an advocate for a "brand" of cables, but good cables? Indeed. In fact, my speakers have strict requirements on things such as loop resistance so if you wanna play.....

Cables can be part of the subtractive part of the system just as room acoustics are. We're hoping to not introduce additional distortions and anomalies into the signal path before it reaches the listeners ears. The more refined the room/system interface the more noticeable these issues become. I can tell you that the bane of my system right now is something that most folks would think insane: HVAC vent turbulence. When you get things tuned and refined details begin to emerge that previously may have seemed nonsense. I can hear vent turbulence during quiet passages from 15' away. Been changing out vanes, diffusers, etc. So imparting low level distortion....or "subtracting" it makes all the difference in the world.

Give it a try. Not impressed? OK, but I prefer my beer in the appropriate glassware with a head to carry the aromatics and lace the glass.

 

Wait! They don't?

 

A very nice post there, AxiomAcoustics.

 

Sorry to hear that. Perhaps you can send it back?

 

Most appreciated!

 

Have you not noticed? Everything sounds exactly the same. Everything tastes exactly the same. Everything looks exactly the same. We are entombed in a reality of perceptual oatmeal and anyone that perceives any minute variation is completely psychotic and lost in a bubble of personal, magical perception and forever unredeemable for all time.

 

Hey! I represent that remark!

Mmmmm oatmeal.

 

I believe that quality speaker cables and interconnects make an audible difference,a worthwhile difference. The law of diminishing returns definitely applies. There are lots of nice cables out there, most of them superior to generic interconnects and zip cord. I have a pair of Audioquest Colorado interconnect and CV8 speaker wire. Sound great! Battery powered? Snake oil, I don't care, I like them.

Check e-bay and Audiogon, always nice deals on used cables as some people move up the upgrade ladder. You will probably need to spend at least a couple hundred bucks but it will be worth it. Stick with name brands, they got that way for a reason.

 

Speaker cables are a contentious subject? Not for me. I use the "ignore" option.