The downfall of Rhino?

The downfall of Rhino

Or, make that, "The Downfall of Rhino" in terms of sound quality...

Pretty much everyone here knows that almost--if not every--Rhino disc released in these days has been subjected to generous helpings of digital compression. But, I was listening to some older Rhino CD's, like their "Super Hits of the '70's" releases, The Turtles "20 Greatest Hits" and Roy Orbison's "18 Greatest Hits" and none of these releases sound compressed.

When did Rhino begin to compress everything they got their hands on? And why do you think this is so?

 

Many of the earlier Rhino compilation titles like the "Super Hits Of The 70s" series were also subjected to compression and treble boosting. I have dozens of examples.

Compression and EQ are generally used in the mastering phase to help make all the tracks which are all recorded under different circumstances fit together. The compression and EQ, in the case of Rhino, was just heavy-handed to distraction. You can make a good compilation without having to resort to using compression. Steve does it. It is trickier, though. This is where knowing what song will flow into the next well comes into play, so it is also a creative process. A good knowledge of the material is essential.

 

Re: The downfall of Rhino

Maybe a little over ten years ago. You may wish to search on Rhino and Bill Inglot on this forum. Popular subjects here.
Many 90's and later Rhino releases suffer from the compression you mention plus over eq'd top end. Thankfully, I understand that Bill Inglot is against using no-noise.

 

Re: Re: The downfall of Rhino

See, he's not the devil he's implied to be.

 

Re: Re: The downfall of Rhino

Yes, thankfully, he is. One listen to the Nuggets and Nuggets II box sets will instantly confirm that. Although those both of those box sets are also horribly over compressed (but I can forgive them in this case in return for getting all this rare music)

 

It was very popular to make the compressors pump back then. It's even mentioned in the liner notes of one of the sets I think. They were just trying to make it sound like Revlover I guess. Hell, I try to make every mix I do now sound like Revolver.

 

Re: Re: Re: The downfall of Rhino

No, he isn't. Just made some questionable judgemant calls. All engineers do, even Steve has.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: The downfall of Rhino

He is kind of a treble whore isn't he? He's even gone too far for me and I'm one too.

 

Last night I listened to the Johnny Rivers Anthology and quite truthfully, did enjoy it.

Then I put on the remastered Chicago II.

End of listening session.

George

 

To be fair, I recall an interview he did in the old BSN newsletter about nine or ten years ago where he said to the effect that he employs various things to a tape because many listeners couldn't handle hearing their classic favorites in their pristine state.

I don't really look upon a series like the "Have A Nice Day" or "Didn't It Blow Your Mind" as being an audiophile collector's set. I think the idea was more for those who listened to hit radio, which made many of those songs compressed anyway.

As Steve spelled out elsewhere, Rhino gave us our cherished, lost oldies back to us when no other company woulde or could. For that we cut them slack despite some of the things we may be unhappy with.

 

One must remember that Inglot doesn't/didn't do all of Rhino's remastering, nor does he oversee every project they release.

 

I bet I pay Rhino's light bill every month with all the stuff I buy.

 

Thanks Steve! I've been defending the man for ten years now. Yes, even I have issues with some of his work, but perhaps he has good reasons for what he did. We just will never know because his haters drove him away from interviews.

In the end, he really is responsible for half the oldies we now enjoy!

I wish he could know that not everyone is against him.

Three cheers for Bill Inglot!

 

I bought his second house!

 

I found this forum because I wanted to read an interview with Bill. Found nothing. Anybody have any info on this guy?

 

The mood has changed here over the last few months.

Steve and Grant have certainly been consistent supporters of Inglot and the guy does deserve a LOT of credit for tracking down and preserving so much wonderful music.

Many of us have a tendency to be overly critical especially of mastering imperfections. On balance, I propose a motion to support much of what Rhino has done.

 

All the info I have is that he's from Philadelphia and is a record collector like the rest of us. He truely loves the music! He still probably works harder than anyone else in the reissue business.

You won't really find any interviews with him past 1994, or so, his last was probably in that BSN newsletter I mentioned earlier. I once sw him on a Rhino TV commercial.

He is very serious about what he does and gets very upset with all the criticism leveld at him. He says no one pays attention to all the good stuff he gets on a CD, they only look at that one track that's taken from a record, for an example.

On NR, he says that if a tape has hiss, so be it. But if you take steps to remove it, it's your fault as an engineer.

 

Thanks Steve!

 

well, I am an audiophile, and I LIKE his efforts to give us MONO mixes. I wish he could give us more! There's a lot of mono single mixes still missing and getting harder and harder to find!

Of course, someone has to release those mono mixes...

 

Good point. Unless you have the original vinyl to compare to, we shouldn't be so quick to cry "overly compressed" because it may have been recorded/mixed that way. Also as far good sounding recent Rhino releases, I think Inglot did a very good job on the Rascals box set. When I did a comparison to my old Warners collection, the new stuff didn't sound any treblier or compressed, just cleaner and a little louder.

 

Also the Monkees Music Box sounds excellent, especially the P, A, C & J Ltd. stuff.

 

I'm glad he keeps the mono mixes in print, partly because I don't know many others who would.

As for the sound he gets, it's a real mixed bag, regardless of when the stuff was mastered. I wish he did things more like the Stax/Volt box set, arguably the single best release he ever worked on. Tubes, flat transfers, original single master tapes (with a few exceptions)...first class all the way!