The Grateful Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JRM, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    OK, too many Frisell mentions to let it go unaddressed. But in the interest of keeping on-topic, I'll post my favorite Bill Frisell over in the Un-Grateful Thread.

    But with respect to the 3/23/74 WRS, it's not necessarily up there for being the tightest (although it is tight), it's mainly there for the duel Phil and Jerry have from 12:54-13:20. Top five moment in the history of this fine band.
     
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  2. Mr. Rain

    Mr. Rain Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Well, Mickey left!
    Bob Weir said in an '80s interview after Mickey's return, "When we were a quintet, it was a lot easier...to be a lot looser. Now that you have another drummer, it's half again as cumbersome to turn a corner... [Another drummer] makes it a whole lot more difficult to be real open and real loose. And yet we can do it. It's just not as easy as it was back then to ramble from place to place..."
    But this may also have been true in the period before Mickey left. Jams that happened outside Dark Star (and often inside) in 1970 were typically very percussion-driven, but in '71 the Dead could be more loose and untethered. Aside from the Other One, the other immediate beneficiary of Mickey's departure might have been Good Lovin' as it expanded into a kind of stream-of-consciousness jam.
     
  3. rcb30

    rcb30 Fender Rhodesian

    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Been a while and I guess you'd call it official but quasi-available, but I recall the one from the Dave's 02 bonus disc (7/29/74) as being the best track of the entire release and a "wow" sort of version. Dialing it up and will see if it's as good as I recall, right after this "Roundabout" from Yes / Progeny wraps up.

    (Edit: energetic but probably not qualified for this discussion)
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  4. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    I should mention, at least for @warewolf95 's sake that I listened to 4-4-91 the other day and it sounded like a return to form.

    It started off with the aforementioned Sam Cooke's Good Times (aka LTGTR,) which puts a nice vibe on things. Stranger and TLEO are both solid.

    They do credit to the Help on the Way>etc. opener, and the jam out of Estimated is nice (vince's saxophone that was cool the first time is not too heavy-handed this go-around.) I Need a Miracle seemed to be the call going into drums, which hardly had me jumping for joy, however well-played. Standing on the Moon is a credible Garcia ballad, I prefer to some that were in the repertoire longer. 'Going through the motions' is too harsh, it was well-performed, but nothing stood out very much to me.

    I also moved on to 6-20-83 at the Merriweather Post Pavilion in MD. For a show that starts with Minglewood, this one was OK. TLEO, Tennessee Jed and West LA were my first set highlights. If they hadn't played Brother Esau, this would have been the first time in 83 they had played two shows in a row without playing it. But of course they did play that in set 1 of this show (I like that song, but that's Bob to play it so frequently.)

    This has the best post-hiatus China Cat>I know you rider I've heard, a nice long jam in between the two, and even Samson hits that groove for a bit. The last version of Bob Star>Other One out of space is capped off by a nice Wharf Rat. Baby Blue rarely disappoints as an encore.

    I like it when they do the New Orleans beat stuff. I'd typically rather hear that than one of their 80s old-timey blues numbers.
     
  5. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    Yep, I should have included the 7/29/74 WRS in my discussion. IMO, the bonus disc blows DaP 2 out of the water. And Billy's drumming is worthy of top honors.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  6. AxiomAcoustics

    AxiomAcoustics "The enemy is listening"

    Excellent points regarding Cryptical but I should have been more clear that my main point was the 2/18 significance and what it ushered in: Mickey’s last show. The slow phase-out of Cryptical (I think) helped with the transition, whether or not it had anything to do with his exit. As this developed it allowed the band to be more agile, more responsive and easier to ‘steer’. It also quickly facilitated Billy’s transition to one of the finest “rock” drummers of the era where he developed a swing that is far too uncommon in non-Jazz music. (Folks like Mitch Mitchell and John Densmore are good examples of those who also swung.) Once they became a solid quintet (and sextet while Pig was still around) they really did swing, the overall feel and pulse was different. He had big shoes to fill and he rose to the occasion and helped usher in the period of the band that many love so much for it’s exploratory and improvisational bent, roughly 72-74. The development of jamming/improv vehicles like Dark Star and The Other One would have progressed differently had there been two drummers, and the phase-out of some of the more ‘complicated’ tunes (including my beloved "Caution" and "New Potato" and "The Eleven") and structures went along with this transformation. It’s akin to the differences between Jazz improvising within a complicated chordal structure like Bop vs. the more open and loose style allowed by Modal composition. I felt this coincided with @ianuaditis insightful musings.

    I’m in the middle of experiencing this difference right now. I finished listening to the “Playin” from 10/16 and went immediately to the 10/20 (Mickey’s return) and they’re quite different. Which one's better? Both. ;)
     
  7. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    I should correct myself here - they did not play Esau on 5-15 or 6-18, so 6-20 would have been 3 shows without.

    Also, do people talk about 5-14-78 as one of the top versions of Half Step? They should probably think about it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  8. AxiomAcoustics

    AxiomAcoustics "The enemy is listening"

    As I hovered over the DP section I saw DP14 and though.....hmmmmmmm. Pulled it out and sure enough: two WRS's! Boston Garden 11/13 and 12/2/73. So now I'm distracted. But it's time for some Coltrane perhaps.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  9. budwhite

    budwhite Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.

    Location:
    Götaland, Sverige
    One of the great GD moments occur in Wharf Rat when the power drops out by lightning, and when it comes back on it is with a force. Phil Lesh blows the place apart!
     
  10. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Perfect timing. Im hitting 4 3 91 today. :)
     
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  11. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    Is that what that was? I'll have to check it out again.

    Rope of fire in the skies...
    Better luck to you with that one than I had. I think I was just having a bad night though, I slept horribly later that night.

    Meanwhile I just listened to a couple of Acid Test tapes - 1-8-66, the Fillmore Acid Test, and 2-12-66 the Watts Acid Test.

    There's plenty of weirdness on those tapes, including a kind of awe-inspiring moment from Pig on the 'who cares' rap. Pigs vocals are low on 1/8, but Weir and Garcia get their tunes in in Hog For You and Death Don't Have no Mercy. Twist and Shout from 2-12 shows they at least had the germ of what they were going to become already in place at those gigs. (I wonder who plays harmonica though.)

    Somebody stop that blabberin' and get that guy a taste of microphones already.
     
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  12. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    The wrong date thing is turning into an epidemic! 30 November 1973 for those of you keeping score at home.
     
  13. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    Well you guys got me listening to 29 July 1974, which is not at all a bad thing. Thank you.
     
  14. lucan_g

    lucan_g Forum Resident

    But we all know that 4.1.91 is the money show. Best China>Rider of the 90's (and arguably as good as anything in the 80s IMHO), and a monster Dark Star...
     
  15. scribbs

    scribbs Resident Mockery

    Location:
    Surf City USA
    4/1/90 China Rider wasn't too shabby.
     
  16. trd

    trd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berkeley
    10/31/79 came up on relisten’s random show feature while I was driving up to SF yesterday. The opening China >Rider is great fun. When they turn the corner in the jam, Garcia hits on a lick that sort of dances around the melody. Brent picks it up, eventually Phil does too and all three of them continue to dance around it through Rider. It was so good that when it finished I listened to it again, just to be sure.
     
  17. KeninDC

    KeninDC Hazy Cosmic Jive

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Capital Centre. Pre-Heavy Metal Parking Lot.
     
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  18. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    New & Improved!

    7 May 1970- DuPont Gym, MIT. An improved transcription of a classic audience recording. At the usual place, which, btw, is continually inundated by new sources.
     
  19. Dahabenzapple

    Dahabenzapple Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    Digging into bonus disc from Dave’s 2 which includes the jam section from 7/29/74 (WRS, He’s Gone>Truckin’>Nobody’s Fault>TOO>Spanish Jam>Wharf Rat)

    Wolf sounding amazing....

    Long otherworldly out Jam on WRS that ended first set - 19+ minute version which equates to a 13 minute Let it Grow with no “noodly” ending although as Mr. AT knows, I love “noodly”:)
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  20. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    3-30 is not shabby at all, either. I'd have a hard time picking between those - Peggy-O, Dark Star and Baby Blue would probably win out though.
     
  21. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    About 2 weeks too late for me. But anything they can do to improve some of those old AUDs is welcome. Until someone uncovers a trove of previously unknown SBDs from 1970 that's the best we can hope for.
     
  22. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    Since said SBD's have yet to materialize, I shall continue to alert folks to notable new sources for great 1970 shows that only circulate from AUD recordings.
     
  23. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    I respectfully disagree. 6 16 91 is the hottest China>Rider for me. Though 4 1 91 is u0 there too

    :)
     
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  24. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Sometimes its all about the mood. That happens to me all the time. Yoive gotta be receptive to it. If yoire forcing it its not a good sign. :D

    That being said, i thoroughly enjoyed 4 3 91. Not on a best-ever level, but the energy was solid throughout and the show was overall excellent in a straightforward, no snazziness kind of way.

    Gotta check my old review of it later. Im curious what i thought a year ago lol.
     
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  25. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Doing some regional/local runs this week. Currently in Chattanooga TN driving back to Greenville.

    Played 4 3 91 this morning. My uncle is driving now and im playing 8 27 72 for him because he forgot his country cds at home haha.
     

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