The Loudness War: Give It Up!

Mac user so foobar2000 isn't an option.

 

How long is it taking? I would venture to say that an average 4 minute song is nearly instantaneous on my end...maybe 2 seconds. A whole album folder with a dozen songs might take 20 or so seconds.

 

Yeah, I'm merely saying that clearly the entire file is being read and processed. It would never occur to me in a million years that most of that data would be dropped on the floor.

 

It is better than nothing, but not as useful to really compare different types of music...
Some music styles will measure low on the DR scale, but still be dynamic.

I guess for comparing different masterings of the same album it is useful to an extent.

But to compare different albums or genres, not so much. Some styles of music will measure relatively bad but still be dynamic, so there is a lot more to it than just a DR number.

 

I think you might be a bit backward on that. 70s techniques were NOT used on "The Nightfly". If they had, the recording would have been trebly and thin. Why? In the days of analog, engineers would goose the highs because it would have to cut through the tape hiss when it came time to mix. Goosing the highs was kind of a manual way of reducing tape hiss, like a crude Dolby NR.

In fact, in the early days of digital , there were even seminars for engineers to teach them how to not use the old recording techniques with digital because it wasn't needed. Roger Nichols, the chief engineer sor Steely Dan, was at the forefront of digital recording.

 

As we have seen with AF masterings Mr. Hoffman has done, some 80s recordings weren't recorded or mixed that way, but were tweaked in mastering, hence the notes on the tape boxes. In other cases, I think a few producers and artists said "Wheeee! Look how much treble and bass we can get on a CD with no distortion!".

 

A bad enough recording, say, Evanescence, can actually trigger my tensor tympanic syndrome, if it's played above a whisper.

 

Agreed on both counts.

 

That is interesting, testikoff! I have what would appear to be the same issue as Atmospheric...the result I obtain for both my West German 'Target' and Japan 43XD 24kt gold CD pressings of 'The Night Fly' is a DR of 18!?
Could this mean I do not have EAC set up correctly? I have not had this issue before with any other CD's i've tested, as far as I know!

David

 

Wasn't that pretty much over by the mid-'70s, thanks to the near-universal adoption of Dolby NR?

 

No. And, not everyone used Dolby, DBX, or any other means if killing tape hiss.

 

My dad is 59 y.o. and learnt me to listen to music through great stereo equipment ... everyday before I went to school he let me chose a song.

He doesn't like the compressed sound of radiostations, but he also complaints about the quiet sounding latest Kate Bush or new Pink Floyd-remasters. He has no problem with making music louder, as long as people can adjust the sound. The problem starts when they butcher the sound to make it louder.

 

The insidious thing about the loudness war is that it works on a subconscious level to the non-audiophile, which is most of us. I've only just started paying attention to it, but I've found that there is not a single brick-walled album of the last 15 years that I really hold onto as something great. And now that I've discovered what it is, I think of those late R.E.M. and U2 albums that fell into oblivion after a few listens, and wonder if this is the reason why. Also the reason why most if not all new music sounds drained of passion and creativity, or... dynamic range.

 

That was the exact reason for me.

But again - for the life of me - I could not figure out what was bothering me until I had software that finally let peer into the mystery and see the waveforms on screen. As soon as I saw what was really going on - it did not surprise me at all that I pretty much despised every disc I purchased from about 1995-2003 (When I had my "discovery" moment).

On the upside - the "wars" saved me huge dollars over the years.

VP

 

I've wondered the same thing. Brickwalled music has an in-your-face cartoonish quality to it that doesn't reward repeated listenings.

 

When a CD is brickwalled, I rarely play those CDs again but keep the discs if they are newer music but if they are older and often has superior quality either on vinyl or on other CD issues, I get rid of that remaster and try and seek out other ways to obtain the music.

 

i agree, brickwalled albums of recent times doesn't deliver on the emotions like the non-brickwalled ones did.

Something plastic about the whole experience making me want to listen to something else. I'm quite sure there are many albums out there i would have end up liking better if the dynamics were there.

A good song will always be a good song but a great sounding album that sounds pleasing can make a otherwise mediocre song have something going for it.

A song has a tuf job these days, have to be so good the sq doesnt matter.

 

I've been backfilling my collection just that way, except that I don't play vinyl.

I've been pretty successful, 77% of my library is DR10-17 or above, 18% is DR8-9, and only 5% is less than DR7.

 

The "wars" aren't saving me any money. Quite the opposite. I'm spending more on gear so that the loud and loudish stuff is easier on the ears and better. The sort of headphone gear that sounds good and is able to smoothen harsh brickwalled sound is expensive. Typically gear that has a smoothish tubeish style of sound. Gear that is set-back, somewhat distant, and smooth. Gear like that tends to be more expensive. Especially for headphones.

The loudness war is affecting the overall sound I'm after and the sort of gear necessary to get that sort of sound. Fortunately such gear and sound also makes the good recordings sound even MOAR bettah. So it is a win win in my book. But it does mean I'm going in the direction of more pleasant sounding gear and presentation rather than a more analytical style of sound and presentation. That pleasant sounding sort of sound also helps me to appreciate the qualities of tube based gear. Tubes are well suited for the sort of sound I'm now after, though good SS can also do what I'm after.

The loudness war is also a factor that is forcing me to accept that I'm going to need a really good turntable setup. A really good turntable setup isn't cheap. I'm budgeting so that I can hopefully get what I consider a good turntable setup in a couple of years. Ain't gonna be cheap. But I do consider it necessary given the state of some of what's being released on vinyl vs. CD or digital. I know you can't compare vinyl DR with digital DR. Not the same thing. But the vinyl presentation does sound better for some albums even if the vinyl and digital came from the same mix and source. This realization isn't gonna be easy on the wallet. Expensive. Plus I am buying some LPs now even though I don't currently have a turntable setup that I'm willing to listen to them on yet. This "war" ain't saving me money. But it is going to help get me to a better place and to a better level of gear. Plus a better turntable setup will get my old LPs to sound even better as well. A win win.

The "war" isn't saving me money in music purchases either. I'm still spending as much as I would have otherwise. It just gets spent on different music in different allocations. I'm buying lots of used CDs of older masterings rather than buying new current remasters or some of the new current releases. Sucks for the music industry cause I'm buying a lot fewer new titles. Sucks for them. They deserve that punishment if they insist on delivering us that crap. I've no sympathy for their current financial plight of the majors (except for the indies, I support indies as much as I can).

 

With the risk of being considered pernickety, I can't help mentioning that the 50-year olds in most of the civilised world are very unlikely to already have grandchildren and especially at the age of Katy Perry's fans. Also, given the average career lifespan of stars like Perry, they are very unlikely to ever have ))

 

I'm not 50 yet. I never got a chance to hear The Beatles live. I still reserve the right to legitimately complain.

 

That's silly! Do you listen any of the music you listened to when you were a kid for pleasure? I'll bet you do.

 

Here's a great explanation (ear fatigue caused by dynamic range compression) >>> click

 

Ham, you've got a great set of ears on you. I hope that I get to hear your vinyl setup when you get it going. I've been waiting for decades to hear a vinyl playback system that is superior to the best digital systems I've heard. I'm not saying it cannot be done, I've just never heard one. And I'd really like to. It's a bucket list thing.

Regarding the financial thing... let's just say that when I have to repeatedly backfill my library because the stuff I paid for (sometimes more than once) was crap, I feel fully entitled to find solutions outside of some folks rigid moral box. If the record labels want me to respect their intellectual property, they should show a minimal amount of respect for said intellectual property themselves, instead of behaving like crass hucksters and squatters, trying to find the ultimate sweet spot where customers will pay the most money for the worst product. What other business operates that way? Especially when you consider that there's virtually no cost differential to provide a superlative digital experience versus providing a squashed lossy experience. I truly do not get it. And I don't respect that behavior at all. Ripping customers off like that may be legal, but it's certainly not moral or considerate in my value system.

 

+1

My financial comment was strictly from a "music purchase" angle - as in - I get excited about a new release - then I find out it's DR5 and it's no sale. ALL of my actual music purchase dollars goes into filling holes now - those original CDs and original vinyl that I do not have and I am seeking. Zero dollars go to any release that has been ruined by poor mastering. And it's basically no new vinyl releases either since 99.9% are sourced digitally anyway.

The gear budget is completely separate and it plays zero role in attempting to temper the wars. If anything - gear updates are specifically aimed at making my properly recorded source material sound even more inviting.

VP