DCC Archive The Lovin Spoonful Grt Hits--Rhino vs Buddah

Bought the Rhino version years ago and now theres a Buddah Grt Hits that claims to have used the first generation master tapes---anybody have this--marked improvement or just hype?

 

Hi Dr.
Go to http://www.bsnpubs.com/chat/chat0002.html and check out the discussion.
Here is a sample of one of the posts
Name: Curt Lundgren
Website: Reel Top 40 Radio
From: Twin Cities, MN
Time: 2000-02-17 14:05:04
Comments: Stop the presses! BMG's reactivated Buddah is out with a terrific Lovin' Spoonful hits disc....and guess who did
the mastering? Bob Irwin at Sundazed! I'm hearing stuff I didn't know existed in previous mixes. Especially check out the softer
stuff, like "Rain On The Roof" and "Darlin' Be Home Soon". 26 tracks, missing only "Me About You" (only Joe Butler left in the
group) and "(Til) I Run With You". 86 whatever "Best Of" you've got by them....this is ACES!

 

I recall that there was a previous thread on The Lovin' Spoonful, but I couldn't find it, and I don't remember if it reached a conclusion! D'OH!!!!

So, in the interest of science , I decided to compare multiple versions of one particular track, SUMMER IN THE CITY, from as many different cd sources as I could conveniently muster. I found *9* of them without too much trouble! (SITC was a big #1 hit in 1966.)

Thus I listened to the following 9 versions of SUMMER IN THE CITY:
(grouped in chrono order by date printed on cd label)

----- 4 cds by The Lovin' Spoonful:
1986 US Buddah BCD 68002, The Very Best Of The Lovin' Spoonful, track 7 <----- surprise winner!
1990 US Rhino R2 70944, The Lovin' Spoonful Anthology, track 11
1995 US Kama Sutra BMG Direct 75517 49500 2, The Lovin' Spoonful (Do You Believe In Magic? / Hums), track 23
2000 US Buddah 74465 99716 2, The Lovin' Spoonful Greatest Hits, track 11 <----- best tape source but 'they wanted to make it even better' :-( bad move

----- 5 cds by VARIOUS ARTISTS:
1986 US Priority CDL9459, Rockin' 60s, track 1 <----- ruined by waring-fds processing (actually done on purpose)
1987 US Time-Life Music 2CLR-02 OPCD-2557, Classic Rock 1966, track 7
1987 US Warner Special Products 9-27610-2, More Party Classics, track 15
1990 US CEMA Special Markets, Entertainment Weekly Presents Rock Archives Volume 1, track 7 <----- channels reversed (effects should be on right channel)
1993 US Rhino R2 70627, Billboard Top Rock'n'Roll Hits 1966, track 2

Conclusion: IMHO, one cd was clearly the best - the _1986_ Buddha (NOT the new _2000_ Buddah)!

(Light Bulb appears over my head) Hey, if I make a cd with all 9 versions on it, clearly identified, then anyone could check this out for themselves!

I'll do this if anyone is interested. I'll need a couple of bucks for postage but that's it.

After all, this is for research only, and if I squint really hard, it sort of looks like fair use.

And it's a great song! :-D

 

Care to go into detail at all? Ie, what stands out to you?

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: Luke Pacholski ]

 

Luke, one good reason for burning a SUMMER IN THE CITYs cd is so everyone can hear for themselves and decide...

But seriously, here's what it sounds like to me, in a nutshell, and remember this is all just MHO:

The 1986 Buddah has a more musically neutral sound than the others. It's made from a fine-sounding tape copy, and they let you hear it. It is not messed up intentionally or unintentionally. It's nice to actually listen to!

The 2000 Buddah is from even _better_ tapes, as they tout on the package, so that's good. However, it's been 'processed for improvement', and therefore they don't really let you "hear the tape" itself. The low end doesn't breathe, and the high end is eq'd up enough to be constantly noticeable, and to that extent it's annoying, not helpful.

If I hadn't heard the 1986 Buddah, I'd be more impressed by and probably be defending the 2000 Buddah, because it's certainly cleaner than the 1990 Rhino. But even though the eq is not totally overdone, the music doesn't sound right once you hear the 1986 for reference.

FWIW, here is one detail I noticed during the comparisons that helped me make sense of things. At about 1:57, you can hear that the last two words ("the city.") have been 'dropped' in or spliced or whatever, because there is a 'pwop' right between the word "in" and "the city". Only the 1986 Buddah provided enough clarity and detail for me to isolate and identify the noise at the change of the vocal. Neat!

 

Since this (Rhino vs. recent Buddah) relates to the original poster's original question, and those are the only two CD versions I've heard, I'll weigh in and say FabFourFan is right here, the recent Buddah trumps the Rhino version soundly. I have no trouble believing the '86 version may be better, though, and will be looking for a copy (thanks! ... I love the Spoonful).

BTW, just two days ago I scored an original Kama Sutra "Very Best of the Lovin' Spoonful" LP pressing ... AWFUL! There are so many veils you can barely hear ANYTHING ...

 

Jeff, let me know if you want a copy of the 1986 Buddah or a disc with the 9 versions to compare. [email protected]

 

I have an older Buddah CD, "Very Best Of Lovin' Spoonful" 1986, made by Discovery Systems (very poor disc making facilities). The disc sounds great, but songs like "Coconut Grove" and "Darlin' Be Home Soon" are wroght with tape hiss something fierce. The rest of the tracks sound great, but I doubt wholly if it's the one ya'll talking about(??).

The disc in whole is okay, but I'm sure anything else has smoked it since.

 

Scott, that looks like the same disc as mine.

To be accurate, the name is clearly indicated as The Very Best Of The Lovin' Spoonful.
The disc is labeled in blue ink, BCD 68002.
In the code ring it says MADE BY DISCOVERY SYSTEMS - AN AMERICAN COMPANY 01M0300.
The cd has 16 tracks and the cd length is 41:33.
(The tray sheet is labeled BDC 68002, in error.)


Well then, the question at hand is whether or not some of the tracks were too hissy? This is a more than reasonable question, because that's what I myself thought for many years!

In fact, I was certain that I 'remembered' that the old cd was dull and hissy in spots and just not exciting, until I dug it out and made the SITC comparisons.

That's why I said earlier that I was so surprised when I realized how neutral it actually sounds.


As for whether the new 2000 Buddah should have smoked the old 1986 Buddah, well, YES, it should have, I suppose. That's what the stickers say!
But they fiddled with the new one and changed the sound.
So, the neutral sound of the old Buddah seems to be the nicest of the bunch.


But, let's keep this in perspective - I'm not saying the old Buddah has suddenly become the equivalent of a gold DCC all-tube job!!!
Sure, there is some hum and some hiss (honest analog noises) included on the old cd.
However, playing it now, it seems to serve the music better than those other versions, and that's what my original posting was trying to report.


As always, this is MHO and YMMV!

But you can hear it for yourself if you are interested.
If you want a copy of the SUMMMER IN THE CITY comparisons cdr, please just let me know.


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
BTW, was there a problem with Discovery Systems?
I have many discs from them and they seem to be holding up all right, but did I miss something?
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

 

Depending on what you have and when you bought it, some Discovery systems Cds do a lot more than just rot. How about full-blatent peeling?

Discovery systems felt for a while that making a sealent in the coverage of aluminum on the top coat was definately enough. This made the Cds cheap and Warners (co's) used Discovery for making promo CDs in the 80s... singles... TM Century also used them to make Cds, as they were a broadcast media company that made system "Gold Discs" (laugh) for complete buyable music catalogues and commercial production music.

They perfected their mix, but there were certainly a lot of Discovery System discs made that FALL COMPLETELY APART. If I go back to the valut at my folk's house, I'll show you a Tommy Bolin promo CD that look butchered to hell. In fact, it was merely shelved, and fell apart like paint remover had hit it. Evil stuff.

Now, I'll have to go out and buy "Come Taste The Band" by Deep Purple. It's been years since I've heard "Gettin' Tighter".

 

Scott, that 'cd peeling' problem does not sound good! I'll be watching out for it with the old Discovery cds. Thanks for the info!!


Minor followup on Summer In The City:

While using headphones to compile the cd with the 9 versions of the song, I noticed that the 'splice noise' that I referred to previously is immediately before the last *three* words of the song - "in the city." (At first, I thought it was between IN and THE.)

Actually, it sounds like there's some funny stuff going on for the last *eight* words or so, making it seem like they pieced the vocal together from different parts for those ending. Ah, headphones!

Also, I finally realized that the 1986 Buddah is spelled BUDDAH, while the 2000 Buddha is spelled BUDDHA. They changed the spelling (!), and I got it mixed up in my previous post. Very sorry!!