The RETURN OF THE JEDI appreciation thread

Ah, that's right! May the 4th be with you! I'll have to check out that book.

 

The movie has some great interior and exterior shots. I really like the color palette.

 

I went into the theater at age 15 without having read a single review (but of course having loved the first two) and when they got the point of revealing that the Empire has a bigger, badder Death Star I thought "OMG they're completely out of new ideas"

As a matter of fact, if an even bigger and badder Death Star is the super-weapon of choice by the villain's in the new series, I'm probably done with Star Wars.

 

It's got some great set pieces, but in between those you have wooden acting, a lame script and teddy bears.

I want to believe that if Kurtz, Kasdan and Kershner had been able to continue with the thread they'd started in Empire, Jedi would have been a much better film.

 

I agree, but this is an Appreciation Thread and I was trying to come up with nice things to say about the movie.

 

Good point. So in that spirit, the Rancor is a really cool puppet, and was shot brilliantly.

 

Yeah! Love that guy!

These days of course it would be CGI... which just isn't the same. sigh.

 

What's interesting about the Death Star in ROTJ is how quickly they threw it together. They started building the first one at the end of Revenge of the Sith, approximately 20 years before A New Hope when it was unveiled. There's a relatively short of time between the destruction of the first Death Star and ROTJ, and in that short span of time, they were able build another one.

 

How Return of the Jedi Should Have Ended.

 

Well, by the time they started the second one, they had gone through all the legal red tape and OSHA Compliance mandates and stuff so it helped to streamline the building process for the second one.

You know how it goes.

 

I'm glad Luke Skywalker will be in the new movie... He can teach the young up and coming Jedi how to do a proper light saber battle over a bottomless pit!

 

And they can give him a hand when he's done!

(Get it? A hand... 'cause... Yeah).

 

Another fun fact about Death Stars. They're bad luck for the Empire. Each time the Empire had a Death Star, they got their asses handed to them.

 

dWhen I was a kid ROTJ was my favorite of the trilogy... maybe because I was 6, almost 7 years old when it was released it had the biggest impact on me of the three. After repeated viewings and over the years ESB became my favorite and ROTJ has slipped to my least favorite, but I still enjoy it a lot and certainly more than any of the prequels. The first act in Jabba's palace is terrific for the most part (the original song/dance number perhaps wasn't great, but the updated "Jedi Rocks" of the Special Edition was atrocious), though the whole 'plan' (if you want to call it that) of Luke's to rescue Han is best not analyzed and instead just enjoyed.

Yoda's death is poignant and the Emperor's arrival paired with the Rebel Alliance briefing makes for a good setup for the final battle. Aside from the Ewoks and the land battle, the rest of the second act is great, highlighted by the Emperor's throne room scenes, which brings the Skywalker story arc to a satisfying conclusion (how one can imply that these scenes are on the same level as The Phantom Menace--i.e., "stupid"--is beyond me, as I consider the ending sequence where Luke defeats Vader and then Vader's redemption as among the best of the whole trilogy... but to each his own). The space battle while perhaps not as emotionally charged as the concluding assault on the Death Star in ANH is still a fantastic display of ILM's special effects magic.

There are several flaws with the movie, starting with the Ewoks... or at least how the were portrayed as teddy bears in the movie. The costumes themselves were ridiculous and the idea that they could take down the Imperial troops is just not credible. Aside from how stupid they looked, my bigger complaint is how you see one and only one Ewok in the whole stinking battle die (and they make a big deal of that scene too with another Ewok coming back mumbling what sounds like "don't die"). Now take a look at this storyboard by Joe Johnston that never made it into the film showing a Stormtrooper blowing the head off an Ewok... if they included some scenes like this and toughened up the Ewoks I could almost forgive the lousy little teddy bears:

Other problems include the unoriginal idea of a second Death Star, the softening of Han Solo and Leia's characters (neither of which had much to do in the film, notwithstanding the eye candy of Slave Leia), and the cheesy celebration ending... but this is an "appreciation" thread after all, so it's best not to go on too much

BTW, if you have an interest in how the original trilogy was made, then I highly recommend J.W. Rinzler's "Making of..." books. I just finished his ROTJ one coincidentally (from where I took the above image). There's a wealth of information and its well written. There's a good mix of both quotes from when the film was originally made plus more reflective ones from more recent years. Also has a number of the early scripts and a partial transcript of the story conference with Lucas, Kasdan, Marquand, and Kazanjian.

A few things stand out with ROTJ that I think are telling in the final movie. Lucas was determined to keep control of both the cost and story, which had slipped out of his hand on Empire... there would be Kurtz/Kershner to mold the movie in their own manner this time. Marquand was really in over his head and from reading the book if Lucas hadn't stepped in the movie probably would have been a lot worse. Also I think the fact that he was now a father softened Lucas a little and that is echoed in a passage late in the book where he wanted his daughter to have a plush Ewok stuffed animal and humorously Kenner was very reluctant to make such a toy as they didn't think it had a chance in hell of selling.

Finally, George's impending divorce really had an impact... he knew during post-production in the summer of 1982, but didn't tell anyone until after the movie was released. There's a great passage in the book where Ken Ralston of ILM states "We were wondering what happened to George. Jedi wasn't the same as before... there was a definite lack of involvement with him directly; we weren't getting the kind of feedback and information that we got before and you could feel something wasn't right. It got to a point where they actually had to bring us all in a room and somebody got up there to just tell us what was happening, because we were all looking at each other waiting for more direction, more focus to the project. It was kind of disturbing, because we didn't have enough context. We just didn't know what was working, what wasn't working..." It seemed like everyone from George all the way down the line, from the actors to the ILMers were burnt out on the SW saga as a whole and unfortunately it shows in the final movie.

 

Correction, the author is Michael Kaminski. I was getting him and JW Rinzler mixed up. I blame the cold meds I'm taking! Carry on...

 

This is addressed (sort of) in one of the FAQ's here:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/faq

 

Well the Ewoks didn't take up that much screen time certainly not enough to ruin it. When I watched it so many years ago I was kind of disappointed how easily the Emperor could be killed. Wasn't he the Sith Lord? That was kind of anti climatic.

 

I was fine with the Ewoks right up until the point where they started kicking Stormtrooper butt.

A bunch of Ewoks (no matter how craft) should not be taking down armed Stormtroopers wearing protective gear and helmets.

 

IMHO the only element that has been keeping highest standard throughout in SW saga is John Williams' score.

 

I think that was kind of the point - primitive over technology.

Anyway, just watched this again over the weekend, but did not watch the bastardized special edition. There are grey market versions out there created by the fans, lovingly restored to near-HD quality, that undo all of the terrible changes Lucas made. I can accept most of the edits to Star Wars and Empire, but Jedi was completely ruined in the blu ray version just released... it's unwatchable in that state.

The ending is still my favorite sequence in any of the Star Wars movies - the juxtaposition between the space battle, Endor raid, and Luke vs Vader fight is a masterpiece of editing, I think. The tension is well planned and tightly executed. And that space battle tops anything done in the prequels - love every minute of it.

Also, the previously mentioned Secret History of Star Wars book (http://www.secrethistoryofstarwars.com/) does a good job detailing the original plan for Jedi before Lucas had a change of heart and decided to care more about merchandising than storytelling. It could have been a bittersweet, but masterful work of storytelling. No wonder Gary Kurtz was so bitter.

Quote from A/V Club interview a few years ago:

 

I always wondered about that. But as we saw at the end of part 3 they were starting to build the first one. Since there are about 20 years between 3 and 4 it must take 20 years to complete. So maybe the second one was started 6 or so years after the first? LOL

 

Part 3 was a huge political drama when the Sith Lord schemed for power and still not yet Emperor so construction was slow going due to funding and the unions whatever. For the second Death Star once he achieved ultimate power he could make things happen much quicker.

 

The Death Star was not OSHA compliant. If you watch the movie you will see the Empire did not use any safety railings at all. Also the Stormtrooper armour is not to code; what is the point if it can't deflect laser fire?

 

The final space battle scene was brilliantly done, IMO.

 

Always wondered about that myself. Who did they think they were going to fight? A bunch of fork wielders?