Thoughts on hi-Rez setup, music servers, etc...advice needed!

This may be a long post but please bear with me!

Currently I listen to music in 2 locations in my home. In my office I have my CD collection which I play on a Naim CD5I player. In my living room I have my home theatre setup, where I can play SACD and DVD-A on my Oppo BDP-83

I'm now just starting to get interested in hi Rez downloads from HDtracks. In my current setup I believe I have only one option, which is to play the hi Rez files from my computer, routed through a DAC that is plugged into the aux inputs in my Naim. If I understand correctly, I would not be able to burn the files to a DVD because my Oppo would not support flac or aiff files. (The Oppo BDP-105 will though ?)

At the same time I am puzzling this out, my wife is asking about getting a Sonos system so she could play music in multiple rooms of the house. I'm a little skeptical about the sound quality of wireless speakers. Can anyone comment on them?

This has led me to start looking into music servers, where I could (I think!) save all my music, (including hi Rez) in one location and play anywhere I want.

So now I'm tossing a few ideas in my head. One is to just add a DAC between computer and Naim and play hi Rez files that way. Keep everything else the same. (Is an external DAC best? Are there any good quality internal computer sound cards that would do the job?). Maybe buy my wife the Sonos system and keep playing my music through my own speakers. Another option is to go totally digital and load everything to a music server. What components would this consist of? I'm not sure. Another option is to replace my Oppo with the new 105 and play hi Rez files from DVD.

I am totally new to all of this and am probably missing some important facts and other solutions. I would appreciate any feedback, links to solutions, etc! This includes advice on computer setup. I currently have my music ripped to ALAC files on a windows based laptop. But I'm open to change.

Sorry if my questions are very naive. I'm branching out into something new...be kind!

Thanks!

 

You can hook up a USB drive to a 105. Or a network drive. I have a Mac Mini server hooked to a Synology NAS and Schiit Gungnir DAC. I also play it through a 105 from time to time. But if I were you, I would buy a 105 and a usb drive to get yourself started and go the server route later if you feel like it. I use mine as sort of a digital hub (TV, Apple TV, music server, cable).

Oh, you can read up on digital stuff here. It is a bit of a geekfest.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com

 

Please tell us more exactly what your wife really wants to do. Does she expect to pull up a menu of music, select from it, and play? Or maybe just plug in an iPod to something? What level of fidelity does she expect?

There are some wireless solutions with better fidelity; I was just reading about one in Sound and Vision's latest issue but sorry the technology name escapes me.

It would also help if you gave us the model numbers of the other stuff connected. For instance, what exactly does the Naim plug into? Usually you would plug another DAC into that. And if the external DAC was superior, the Naim would plug into the external DAC as well. Some external DACs can also function as a preamp, if you have power amps.

Yes, load it all to a music server…though sometimes depending on software it is nice to just quickly grab a disc! Maybe a dedicated PC or Mac could be quick enough, but I kind of used iTunes less when my collection got big and it started taking a long time to load and search, and got full of visual crap that got in the way of just finding something specific very quickly.

Also consider how to stream from Pandora, Rhapsody or Spotify, and the new lossless Tidal service. You will really want to be able to do that, and I think your wife will like that as well. For $10-20 a month you can listen to all kinds of stuff. Also if you stream out of your computer into a good DAC you can listen to almost any radio station on the planet, which is cool. It also might be possible to load your content to a cloud server and listen to it in other places (though currently the new Google setup maxes at 320 kbps MP3-which actually can sound very very good in my not so humble opinion. YEMV (Your Ears May Vary)).

 

Thanks for the replies. Some more info:

My Naim CD5i plugs into a Nait 5i which connects to speakers. That's it - it's a standalone CD listening rig. But it is in the same room as my computer.

I think my wife wants to place her iPod or iPhone somewhere and have it pull songs off it and play in any room of the house (wherever we decide to put speakers). She's not too concerned with sound quality. Not like I am, anyway!

So for a music server do you use a dedicated PC? Or buy a specialized gadget? Would you then wire it up to each room?

 

I bought a Sonos connect for myself, but really for my wife. It was frustrating that digital playback in the living room had gotten too complex for her (or me) to use consistently. Note the connect is kind of like the "Sonos Apple TV" if you will, no speakers, just analog and digital outs. I use the digital outs, it sounds much better then other cheaper options I've used. You can have it stream from files in a directory you specify, and its compatible with pandora, google music, spotify, tidal, etc. Also, while your wife can use her phone as a remote to stream the files from a directory, she can also stream files directly from the phone.

In terms of you playing high rez files, a lot of it has to do with proximity from your computer to your stereo. Upstairs I have a mac mini sans monitor (save for the TV, which is usually off) connected to a DAC that I control remotely via my laptop. Downstairs I just have a 15' usb cable connected to a DAC that runs discretely under a rug and comes out next to my chair, good for playing off my laptop.

I used to mess with a variety of different options, but the need for too much fiddle and frequent unreliability caused me to move towards simpler options.

 

The digital file player problem has surprisingly few nifty solutions, especially if you want leading edge format like FLAC.

But once you solve it life is bliss and you will rip all your optical and never go back I would classify the solutions into two groups: Laptop, and some kind of screenless small box.

The problem with all of them is the remote. Phones make ideal remotes, but the catch is to make them actually work. I chose to use MediaMonkey and MMRemote because it lined up with the OS I had on laptop and phone. The nice thing about my solution is it plays _anything_ with a few plugins, and you can use any DAC you want or built-in. The ease-of-use is I would say medium.

Apple ease of use is high according to those people, but you have to convert to ALAC and it's a lot of work. Mini, airplay, appleTV are all solutions I've seen. But then you need everything Apple or don't bother.

Good luck!

 

Marantz SA8005 or Oppo 105

Computer ->(USB 2.0 Cable)->DAC on unit... plus you get a fantastic disc player... the Oppo has more bells and whistles (HDCD, DVD-A, Blu Ray Audio, Network Streaming). Though some say the Marantz has a more "musical" sound...

Either unit you can have your hi-rez and upgrade your disc playing... win/win.

I have no experience on the topic but wouldn't trust wireless speakers... i have a wireless subwoofer on a soundbar (small living room don't jump on me) and i can't get it out of my head that it doesn't thump enough... even if it does work as good as a wired one, if you have the preconceived notion that wireless is inferior, your ears will sadly confirm it.

 

Actually your 83 will play DVD-A's just fine. That's not a complete answer to what your after, but it might help somehow. Just get Cirlinca Solo Ultra for about $70 and burn your own DVD-A's you're not stuck with it only on a computer at all.

However, with one of the 105's, you could also stream to it from the computer, using a program like J River Media and you can do it either with physical discs or all via IP from the computer. RC by a smart phone and you've got a pretty complete system for your main listening position. If your wife has and uses a smart phone herself, you could also just stream to it from J River too. And hookups she has for speakers or just it alone can work.

CJ

 

Yeah, often after I drag a folder or two into the converter window I have to take a nap. It's very difficult work and quite taxing.

Even with everything Apple airplay can be pretty unreliable in my experience. But Minis are great computers for audio due to their small footprint and ability to use any DAC without drivers, and certainly don't need "everything Apple" to be worth the modest investment.

 

I bought the Marantz NA 8005 a few months ago in order to play hi res FLAC since I didn't want to use a computer. It does up to 192 thru the front USB jack. At first I used flash drives. Then I ripped my CD's to uncompressed FLAC and needed more room so I put it all on an external hard drive. It has a built in DAC so the RCAs go straight to my amp. It sounds great. Nice LCD to scroll through albums and songs.

Not sure if it may do what you're looking for. It can do much more than what I use it for. NA = network audio.

http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=HiFiComponents&ProductId=NA8005

 

a lot of people seem to like Sonos, I feel like there is some kind of "effect" (an equalization boost or almost an echo) it adds to compensate for what is lost in the wireless transmission. It wouldn't be my go to for listening to music but as far as getting it into several different spaces it might be hard to beat.

 

Why do you think any data is being lost in the wireless transmission? There's plenty of mechanisms in place to prevent this from happening.

 

just from listening really and belief that if wireless transmission was equal then all the cable companies would go out of business. The box that my audioquest cables came in has a lot of stuff written on there that would indicate there is some engineering and performance that is beneficial. Perhaps lost data isn't the reason but any wireless speakers I have heard sound like wireless speakers.

 

Oh, right. Audioquest would definitely never lie about the performance benefits offered by their cables, so I'm sold.

At least until Audioquest markets a $1000 wireless router that fixes the problems with Wifi the way they fixed the problems with ethernet: http://www.amazon.com/3m-Audioquest...425569456&sr=8-9&keywords=audioquest+ethernet

 

looks like they want $2,400 but shipping is free. I don't buy into cable hype but I upgraded the analog cables from the turntable and phono stage. I cost $100 a set and I think it sounds better.

What are your thoughts? you have Sonos, are you happy with it and prefer to listen to over other wired options?

 

Definitely use upmarket cables on my turntable setup.

I use the Sonos connect, which isn't a speaker itself. Most of their offerings are stand-alone wi-fi enabled speakers, which I've never heard and can't comment on. But the connect sounds great over its digital out, better then an apple TV/airport express, which I guess confirms digital transports aren't all the same. From time to time I experience drop outs of the signal, despite having good wifi performance. Sonos makes a $99 product that creates a dedicated wireless network for just the Sonos gear to use that's supposed to fix this.

All in all I think it's a great product with great features support for music services. I can't vouch for anything beyond the connect, and think the speakers probably aren't for folks on The Steve in terms of their sound quality, but are good for whole-house music and such, and would be my method of choice for partying with drunk girls.

The part about would I prefer it to wired solutions is tricky. I'd be very hard pressed to say a CD sounds better, but when all things are equal I generally go wired for what I'd call "critical" listening, even if I can't really qualify any benefits over streaming at 44/16. Of course critical listening is generally taking place with a turntable, so its kind of a moot point.

 

I bought a Grace digital internet tuner for $155. I wasn't ready to spend to the next level which is around $1000. I'm using it with a trial version of JRivers and so far so good. CS is quite good with my questions.

 

Bluesound and Denon (Heos - sp?) have whole house systems that are getting great reviews. TAS had one about Bluesound that explains their capabilities very well.

 

Thanks to all the advice offered here...it has been helpful, along with other similar threads.

I ordered my Oppo 105 today! Very excited!

Now, I have a couple of questions:

1. I will be connecting the Oppo to a Yamaha RX-V667, which has a 24 bit Burr-Brown DAC. My current Oppo (83) is connected via HDMI, and I let the Yamaha do the conversion. Is the DAC on the 105 better, i.e. should I be connecting via analog cables? Will there be a noticeable difference? If not, I prefer to keep HDMI just to cut down on the # of wires.

2. If I want to play hirez audio via the USB input jack in the Oppo, will that still get passed through the HDMI to the Yamaha, or does this require the analog connections?

3. I've read a few other threads where people have connected a Mac mini to the Oppo. Silly question, but does that hookup require a monitor, or does it all go to the TV? I don't want to have to set up a full computer right beside my TV.

As to my other question about the Sonos, I've decided to buy a few speakers and place them around the house for my wife. She can stream music from her computer and be happy with that. I will be sticking to my wired speakers (Paradigm studios)

thanks!

 

1. The Oppo has a better DAC. What I would do is connect L/R stereo RCA cables for listening to music, and keep HDMI for movies. I'd say there would be a noticeable difference for sure.

2. Probably, but use analog anyway (see 1)

3. Yes. The USB connection is purely for audio, there won't be any video. BUT, Mac Minis have HDMI, so you could use HDMI for video to your receiver and use the TV as a monitor.

 

Hi Dave,

Back to your original post . . .

I have two locations (2 stereos) in my home too, and Ive implemented UPnP streaming over my home wired ethernet network. I have a server on my network, and UPnP client/players. My players are Naim, and so I use Naim's app to control playback. My wife uses it too -- simply a matter of picking up the iPad or iPhone and selecting what she wants to hear.

This is relatively easy to set up, but susceptible to some network issues if your home network isn't up to par. Thus, using a decent unmanaged switch is way better than relying on the Verizon or Comcast router, and wifi is ok for the controller (iPad) but wired is much more reliable for the music, especially hi res.

 

@Sideshow Dave - I think @Rolltide has nailed it here: The Oppo has a killer DAC; you definitely want to at least try using its analogue outs. There is a possibility you might find the Wolfson DAC chip has a "voicing" you find preferable to the Sabre DAC chips in the Oppo, but I would doubt it, not least because the implementation - which includes digital and analogue design elements beyond just the chip - almost certainly is superior in the Oppo.

As for streaming, IMHO you're going to have to have two different setups: One for your own hi-fi listening in your one or two favorite locations, and another for your wife's desire for convenient, easy to use whole-house wireless streaming.

The reason is that the simplest, most reliable, easiest to use solutions are IMO iTunes Airplay, and Sonos - and both are limited to CD quality 16 bit/44.1kHz. You can use high-res files (at least with iTunes/Airplay), but it will downsample so you'll only hear CD quality.

So for your wife I would say one of three options:

1. Put the music in an iTunes library, and put an Airport Express in every room she wants, hooked up to the stereo or a decent set of powered speakers. Then she can use her iPhone to remote control the library and stream it to whichever room she wants.
2. Sonos - I don't know as much about the details of this, but basically you want Sonos units to serve the same purpose as Airport Expresses (unless you want to get the Sonos units that integrate amps and/or speakers with the wireless receiver - but the idea is the same).
3. iPhone docks, connected to whatever stereo/powered speaker setup is in each room. Then she can just walk in, dock the phone and play her music.

For your own setup, I recommend you get a Mac mini and connect it to the Oppo's USB DAC. I have the 105 myself and I love it. I have tried more than one streaming solution, but the only one that's really done the trick with zero problems is getting a Mac mini and connecting it to the Oppo's DAC via USB. This allows for four key capabilities that are hard to find otherwise:

1. Remote control via iPhone/iPad and other Macs (e.g. laptop)
2. Ability to use iTunes instead of a less-integrated third party streaming app and library database
3. Ability to stream directly into the USB DAC - no coax or optical digital, no wireless streaming to a "middleman" device
4. Ability, via a $9.99 app called BitPerfect, to have on-the-fly resolution switching and bit-perfect output while retaining iTunes' ease of use

There are other ways of course, but I haven't found one with a sufficiently low Pain in the A** factor.

 

Thanks! This would be ideal for me but currently my home is not wired for ethernet. I guess I could try running some cable but it will be tricky...

 

Yes, I think I agree...Rolltide's solution will work best.

But can I run everything from my mac mini? Wireless streaming of my wife's music to the Sonos, and then stream my stuff via DAC to the Oppo?

thanks for all of the help!

 

With this setup (mac mini connected to Oppo) do I select the music to be played on the mac or on the Oppo? In other words, is it pushed from the mac or pulled by the Oppo?

Also, is it best to connect the two via USB cable or thunderbolt cable? Just want to make sure I get all the cables I need!

thanks!