Tone controls

I occassionally used tone controls on my old Harman Kardon amp but having recently upgraded most of my system with an Krell intregrated amp with no tone controls, better speakers, new cartridge and new CD player.

With my current new rig, lousy recordings are now much better sounding. Some I thought were bad are actually surprisiningly good. I rarely, if ever, have the urge to use any tone controls anymore. I now get very good bass on most material and my amp/speaker combo present a much better quality treble and fuller midrange.

I gave my old system to my son and occassionally use it when the kids are in the family/listening room. It reminds me that tone controls are not always the answer to what we perceive is a poor recording. A better system can breath new life to your music listening. Unfortunately, the dollar issue always gets in the way on the road to music nirvana.

 

Hi JA,

Just curious...why do you feel that tone controls are needed on vintage equipment and not on "newer, higher end equipment?" I use vintage equipment exclusively and do not use tone controls.

Having worked on both, I can tell you that I see very little difference in the two. Their circuits are similar, and they both use the same components (capacitors, resistors, rectifiers, transformers, pots, switches, wire, solder, etc., etc.)

I hate to be the messenger of bad news, BUT, THERE IS REALLY NOTHING NEW, IN NEW EQUIPMENT...EXCEPT A LOT OF MARKETING HYPE!

HG

 

I must agree with you. I own vintage and modern equipment and also work on modding and restoring both. The main differences I see between some vintage and modern equipment is the use of higher grade parts (e.g., specialty caps, 1% tolerance resistors versus 5% and 10%, etc.). Otherwise, to reiterate what you've said, the circuits are basically similar and use the same basic components. You will see certain manufacturers tout their "completely new design" yet when you compare the schematics of the "old" versus "new", the basic circuitry is the same.

 

There was a time when I was young that when buying an amp , you thought it was better the more buttons it had & if it had VU or LED meters even better. Of course an Intergrated or Pre Amp had tone controls

From the mid 80s the button count became less & serious hifi didn't feature them as it's believed they degrade the sound.

The Int Amps & Pre amps I have personally owned in my lifetime are as follows, Nad 3020, Audiolab 8000c , Rose RV23 , Meridian 501, The Rose got re built buy Glen Croft & in 2010 after my Meridian power amp broke down I decided to buy a Denon PMA 1510. The reason I bought an intergrated after 23 years of Pre power was at the time I was not in a financial position to keep buying Pre/Power. I also wanted tone controls because certain CDs had excessive bass & I had a chance to rectify it. Admittedly the Denon was not as powerful as the Rose/Meridan 557 but the Denon had the clarity & the build quality is better than anything for the price. It's phono stage is very respectable as well.

Very recently my friend sold to me a pair of Vincent Monoblock amps for a superb price , that would be silly to pass by & I now use the Denon as a Pre amp. The combination sounds so good that I have no desire to change the Denon for another Pre amp & besides what Pre would offer tone controls . Most of the time I use the tone defeat button. My question is are Tone Controls really that bad in the world of hifi bearing in mind Mcintosh, Luxman , Dan Dagostino use them. I welcome your opinions & thoughts but let's remember to respect everyone's method of putting a system together in other words there isn't a wrong way only your way. Thanks.

 

Tone controls are fine. Many of the differences that people here between pieces of equipment could be zeroed out by one click either way of a bass or treble knob.

 

I don't ever use them on my main system, but do on other 'lesser' systems at times and sparingly. I use them a bit in the car as well.

 

I don't have tone controls now but I used to have a Luxman integrated amp (mid 70's vintage) that had excellent tone controls.

 

Yes, of course I do. Both recordings and rooms suffer from acoustic issues and a bass/mid/treb control or an EQ can minimize many of these issues. But best to have the ability to bypass them should everything be correct from the get go.

 

^^^This. I'm utterly baffled by the flat response / no tone control crowd, who say things like "Flat response equates to the artists' original vision."

I'm pretty sure when stuff was being released in the '60s, '70s and '80s, it was being mastered keeping in mind that most consumer amps had tone controls or graphic equalizers.

Hey, not getting enough bass from that new stylus? Getting too much treble? Adjust the tone control!!!

 

Fine to use. Or bypass when not needed. I use them once in a while in my living room system. In my dedicated room no don't feel i need them. Overall kind of a broad brush but can be used effectively. Be careful not to add too much dB's!

 

In effect, choosing speakers is a one-time tone control adjustment. And I agree, a much better choice than having to use coarse e.q.-ing.

 

Sansui 2000x/Grado SR325is direct into headphone jack/modded Technics SL 1200MKII/Audio Technica AT150MLX> Almost always leave tone controls on flat. Occasionally add a tiny bit of treble or bass, never anything radical. Not necessary.

 

For me, I needed and wanted to know exactly what the studio was putting out because I was in charge of the overall sound quality of my client studios. Anything that altered that defeated the whole purpose of what I was trying to do.

Now that I'm pretty much just a fan, like most here, I still want to know the truth. If something I hear really bothers me, I'd rather deal with it on a one by one basis and essentially 'remaster' it, but I still want my system to be as honest as possible.

I totally understand that others have different approaches. There is nothing wrong with trying to make music sound more pleasant to a listener and to that end there are no real rules. My main gripe with equalizers is that they have a sonic cost that is too much for me to pay, yet they're well worth the cost for others.

The types of things that equalizers do, as far as that sonic cost, are usually not noticed by the masses. If you can't hear the difference between CD and Hi-Res on your system, then you probably won't notice much of the degradation of a high quality equalizer. Everybody should notice the degradation of a lower quality equalizer.

 

I would use tone controls occasionally but I don't have any.
Not trying to be smart ass here, my system actually has no tone
controls and sometimes I could use one to turn down the bass.

 

Never use tone controls, either at "zero" or on bypass at all times, all amps. I try to take it as intended or look for a better pressing.

 

Yes, I use tone controls from time to time. I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and my recordings span decades, with both good and bad tonal balances.

If I’m listening to the original Vlach Quartet’s Parliament recording of a Beethoven late string quartet (1960s?) and the sound is too bright, I’m going to use my tone controls. I can't choose another version of that recording. Any phase or other problems they may cause pale in comparison to the benefit wrought by taming the excessive highs. And only one person recorded Richter’s Sofia performance of “Pictures at an Exhibition.” Good luck finding a better recording of that singular performance.

Many say they want to hear what the artist or the engineer intended. Well, sometimes the tonal balance that those folks intended is not what I hear in the concert hall. So I don’t really care what they intended me to hear. I want to recreate, as closely as possible (and within the inherent variations of the live-music experience) the sounds I go to concerts to hear.

So yes, on the comparatively few recordings that require it, I am a tone-control philistine! And that’s okay with me.
-Bob

 

I use them very often and don't find the need to adjust once I am satisfied.
using a quality amplifier from Accuphase and the preciseness of the tone control is very strictly control.

I find myself using the tone control very much by keeping the treble neutral and bass up by a mark

 

I find that I tend to, almost always, lower the bass and just bump the treble a little.

 

Used to use tone controls, brightness knob one o'clock. Not anymore.

 

Haven't had tone controls in my main system for decades. For the most part, I don't miss them. I just accept the music the way it is.

In the '90s I bought used a Luxman 5F70 tone control box. It didn't really sound that great so I sold it. Recently I saw one sell on Ebay for over $300. Boy, was I stupid!

 

Don't need or desire tone controls, tried it in the past with various kit and software and the result is always the same, it sounds wrong!

I attempt to tweak my system for a correct and balanced tonal quality, if the recordings deviate from this, so be it as manipulation through tone controls just sounds wrong to me.

Each to there own

 

I don't know. I always have the treble and bass cranked on my Harman Kardon , everything seems to sound better

 

None for me, use the defeat switch or just set bass/treble to ZERO(12 o'clock). Why color your sound?

 

When I was young I tended to crank the bass and even the treble somewhat and the loudness control was on, more seemed better, certainly there were system/program limitations/issues driving those decisions as well as very poor judgment.

I mean ,what 15 year old kid builds huge tuned duct ported speakers bigger than Altec's Voice Of The Theater with 2x15" EV bass drivers in each monster cab and a 200 WPC Dynaco amp back in 1974? I wanted LIVE sound by golly and I darn near got that SPL! Much to the dismay of my neighbors, and parents.

As time went on the settings/speakers became more and more conservative until these days depending on which system I'm using in my home if it has a bypass mode I'll use that, otherwise the controls are on flat. Even if the Andrew Sisters are playing. I 've found no good sonic reason in my listening sessions these days to add top end sparkle or low end. I've found with decent components, speakers & proper setup of all of them I can easily live with no tone control use.

Funny thing is LP's/CD's that I thought needed that extra oomph by dialing in some bass or treble now sound more than pleasing with none of that. Problem is when you dial in boost the volume usually is not turned as loud, so your dynamics get all screwed up.

And if you need to cut instead of boost, well if it's only for a specific CD or record I've found a few large pillows properly positioned, a wall hanging temporarily put up, or rugs placed in the right position do a better job than a dial does, with none of the added sonic issues that tone controls can add. YMMV, but......

 

I'm guessing you anti-tone control types also avoid air conditioning and heating as they color the weather?

Sorry, I don't understand what comes across as snobbery with using tone controls to shape the sound to your space or possible deficiencies in your system or the recording itself. If things sound fine then one can bypass the tone controls on most amps that I'm aware of.