Turntable/Cart Pairing with Heresy Speakers

I recently bought a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (w/ Ortofon 2M Red cart) to pair with my Marantz 2265B receiver and Klipsch Heresy I speakers. It just doesn't sound right. The midrange is very muddied and the high end is way too bright.

I'm trying to decide whether to play around with different carts or go back to square one and buy a different table altogether. If I do go get a new table, I'm curious to hear if others think I ought to find a solid table from the same era as the receiver/speakers or go for something higher quality but modern such as a Rega Planar 2 or 3. Is there a benefit to getting a tt from the same era as the other components??

Your thoughts and suggestions are very much appreciated. Thanks!

 

How does it sound with a decent digital source? Have you had other tables, and are you sure it is set up correctly as far as alignment and tracking? The 2M Red is never going to be magical, but I don't think you should hear a muddied midrange with that setup, at least according to others, I don't have first hand knowledge on either the Pro-Ject or the Ortofon, so I may be mistaken, but I would try to determine where the problem is before making more changes.

 

I had a Revolver Red w/Grado 8MZ, Pioneer SA-9500II integrated and Klipsch Heresy II Sigs in the eighties and didn't experience what you described. Even though I upgraded through the decades, that system was one of the most satisfying and enjoyable systems I ever owned. I'm at a loss to figure out why you feel the midrange is muddy, but a solution might be a change to something like a Grado Ref Platinum. It could solve both of your issues as Grado does midrange better than a lot of other cartridges and they have a slight roll-off at the upper extremes.

 

Have you rebuilt the crossovers in the Heresys? That made a nice improvement with mine.

 

How long have you had the Heresy's and Marantz? Seems like the problem is more likely that pairing, and then perhaps the Marantz phono stage with the cartridge. It's not the TT, which just spins the record around.

 

This was my first thought, and also has the Marantz been worked on at all? The original capacitors are 40 years old and likely out of spec.

Old stuff is cool, but it has to be maintained.

 

Not sure I agree with that. The vintage seventies gear generally pairs very well with the Heresy and other earlier Klipsch models.

 

Thinking back to the vintage era a Thorens TD150 with a
Shure M91ed was a very popular choice and sounded great with Heresies and receivers of that time.

 

Get different speakers.
-Bill

 

My experience is that it works well. The stuff from the 70's generally has less power and a warmer tone than new stuff. The heritage line is efficient so less power to fire them up and the warmth takes a bit of the edge off of the horns.

 

When I first got my Heresy I set, I had similar issues. The connections on the crossovers were loose and the drivers would cut out without my realizing it. I also found that one of my tweeter diaphragms was shot. A rebuild of both crossovers and replacement of the tweeter diaphragm did wonders.

 

+1 on running a different source before giving up on the turntable or cart. Run a CD player and evaluate the amp/speaker combo.

I would think what you are running to be a delightful combination and well matched. From what you are saying I would think the amp or speakers being out of speck would cause the issues you are hearing or you just don't care for the way they sound. To some, a muddied mid range is exactly how they would describe that Marantz and excessively bright a common description of Heresy's. Both have a bit of a love it or hate it reputation.

Changing the table isn't going to do anything to change the tones you are hearing and changing the cart will be a minimal improvement unless you are talking about a big jump in budget from a 2m red.

 

The setup sounds great when listening to CDs or off my computer. And although the Pro-Ject setup sounds better than my earlier into table (Marantz TT-42) in many ways, it's somehow less listenable than that setup. So I'm assuming that the "issue" is with my table/cart/stylus.

 

"___ does midrange better than a lot of other cartridges and they have a slight roll-off at the upper extremes." That seems like the right formula for me. Thanks!

 

They're Heresy I speakers from 1980. But they were barely ever used. I did some noise testing with them and they perform identically to each other. So I had assumed that they were operating as they should. But perhaps not? They were basically sitting unused almost entirely their entire lives...

 

I haven't had the Marantz worked on and I've been hoping for a good recommendation on where to send it to get that sort of work done. Any recommendations on shops? And is there a good template out there for the work they should do? Thanks!

 

I absolutely love my Marantz 2230, but when I plugged my RP6 into the built-in phono, it didn't sound anywhere near as good as my standalone phono. So before you scrap everything, try running your rig through a separate phono stage with your Marantz. As others have said, vintage gear may be out of spec and in need of servicing.

 

The Heresys sound great when listening via other sources. So I think it's a pairing issue with the TT/cart/stylus.

 

A quick google search lead me here:

Rebuild Your Marantz 2265B Receiver

 

Good advice. I've wanted to go with the Marantz phono stage, getting it serviced likely. But have thought about a separate phono stage as well, like a tube stage. Any recs on a stage in the $300 range? Thanks!

 

It doesn't matter if 40 year old speakers were used daily or whether they stayed in their original packaging...specs go out for crossover components.

 

That could be the case with some speakers, and many can be dramatically improved with better components, but in my understanding, these are pretty simple crossovers with only inductors and film capacitors (though there may be variations in later models), both pretty stable components ... and he did say that they sound good listening to other sources.

 

Sounds like you (@Soundgarden) may be hearing some of the things Ian heard. Similar to my reaction to it, though it does benefit from break-in.

 

I'm sure it does, but he's asking about changing the table. If the sound is bright and midrange muddled, I don't think I'd start by buying another turntable. It's more likely the combination of the Marantz phono stage with the chosen cartridge. If the amp generally sounds good through those speakers then perhaps asking the question of what's a good cartridge to pair with that receiver.

 

That's basically where I'm finding myself... I don't want to buy a new turntable if I don't have to.