TV Animation Art Is Mediocre

It did come out on an animation boxed set or two.

 

Since you mentioned:
“classic Warner Bros and Dismey cartoons”, I’d like to clarify that this (already) wide ranging thread was meant to focus on TV Animation shows.

As for my basic premise, I realize that it’s my opinion, and that others may disagree, and actually thoroughly enjoy current TV Animation, for their own reasons.

That’s fine by me; that’s their opinion.

Having different opinions is OK to discuss, to explain and inform each other of that stance; but trying to absolutely declare there’s only one correct position to take, is incorrect.

Those discussions usually don’t end well

 

For shoddy animation you can't do much worse than some of the crap that was aired Saturday mornings in the '80s and early '90s. Stuff like Captain Planet and the rush jobs thrown together to cash in on a trend or celebrity, like the Rubik's Cube show or Hammerman. Stuff that makes the most shoddy Jetsons episode look like Fantasia.

 

I'm with you. Lip sync issues are one of the reasons I find much of the first Simpsons season borderline unwatchable now.

 

While thinking up this thread, I realize that I’d have to provide examples of my own, of quality TV Animation, whether “Good” or “Bad”.
Of course, those specific examples will become a focus of the general premise, and those particular merits will be dissected - perhaps to the point of missing the wider topic.

However...
I agree The Rocky & Bullwinkle Show was stylized and basic - I’m not criticizing a distinctive, highly identifiable look, nor clean precise minimal line work.
That shows’ design is very memorable, with a high level of quality (at least for me).

That’s one reason why I proposed the
Animation Cel / Still premise.
We’d each select images from our favorite TV Animation shows.

 

I see Clutch Cargo was mentioned, and it reminded me of the Space Angel series from 1962 to 1964. Whenever a character spoke on screen, they had those horrible human mouths doing the talking and whenever that happened, all of the rest of the scene's animation was completely static. I always found it surreal...a cartoon character with an inserted real human mouth moving.
I believe it was called Synchro-vox.

 

The reason for the drop off in quality is that the cartoons were produced by a different company and they were produced as many cartoons in about 2 years as Fleischer Brothers/Famous Studios produced in 30 years (if I remember correctly). I find the 1960s Popeye cartoons almost unwatchable. While the Famous Studios Popeye cartoons are good, the best are still the original Fleischer Brothers black & white Popeye cartoons.

Concerning Star Trek - The Animated Series, a factor is that they were done by Filmation. To me, the most notable thing about Filmation is how cookie-cutter their cartoons were. The cartoons looked so much alike (same positions, same poses) that you could take characters from one show and substitute them in another show.

While Filmation did have the potential to do some excellent animation (I like their work on Pinocchio And The Emperor Of The Night) it often did not show up in their television shows.

I agree about anime. To me, the main difference between american animation and anime is that, despite recent changes, american animation tends to still be focused towards chidren. With anime, it targeted towards all audiences.

While there is plenty of anime that is targeted towards children, there is also a large amount that targeted towards other audiences. As an example, the series The Big O is excellent that could be enjoyed by the same people that enjoyed shows like Twin Peaks (The Big O was so good that by the end of the first episode I knew I would see the entire series, and by the end of the second episode I knew I would buy the entire series).

In a related note, one of the reasons that I haven't been too impressed by many recent science fiction movies is that I have the feeling that I've already seen it. As an example, when I saw The Matrix I was disappointed. Why? Because I'd already seen much of the same type of story in many anime so I was left with the feeling "and?"

I think one of the reasons that Gerald McBoing-Boing (and many UPA properties) haven't been too visible is because there doesn't seem to be much interest in the getting then released. Warner Brothers and Disney both get their cartoons out, but this doesn't seem to be the case with the UPA Library. In fact, after decades of not seeing their cartoons, one of my cable channels ran a show where they showed some of the UPA and Famous Studios cartoons (including some Mr. Magoo cartoons and The Fox And The Crow).

I don't have an issue with lip sync when it comes to anime since I know with dubbing it is not possible to get the lip movements to match the spoken dialog. I also don't have a problem when it comes to early cartoons like the black & white Popeye cartoons since those cartoons were post dubbed (which allowed the voice actors to ad lib and put under-their-breath mutterings in those cartoons).

My big issue when it comes to dubbing (whether it is live-action or animation) is when it doesn't match the feel of the original. The voice should match the character, and the performance should be true to the original.

Another issue is when a voice actor is replaced and the new voice actor sounds quite different from the original. An example of this Killin in Dragonball Z, where the new voice actor was so different from the previous one that it took me a long time to get used to the voice for the character.

 

I think I kinda/sorta get where the OP's coming from. I'm so ol' skool I've never seen a single episode of the Simpson's or Family Guy or ANY animated tv show in decades! For me, a cartoon where the art seems secondary quickly loses my attention. But, 'simple' formulaic cartoon art is nothing new, I never cared for the Charlie Brown specials either. What can I say? I have no heart!
Never got into Anime, but I always thought Speed Racer and Gigantor were the OG's! Last cartoon I've seen that was memorable, to me, was The Iron Giant.

 

We got our first TV in ‘51. I used to watch 4 minute chapters of Crusader Rabbit in the mornings. A very limited animation style from producer Jay Ward. So, from the beginning economy was considered.

 

I don't agree with the premise of the thread. I think the quality of animation is still there for many modern animated shows and they often have clear stylistic identities. Four of my all-time favorite television shows are animated. They all premiered after 1990 and they all have wonderful animation that suits the storytelling of the shows.

King of the Hill: Mike Judge's animation style is realistic and beautifully brings Arlen, Texas and its residents to life. The show has an instantly recognizable world and feeling.

The Venture Bros.: Creative, smart, colorful and a wonderful way to bring the style of Johnny Quest into the modern era.

Avatar: The Last Airbender: Absolutely gorgeous animation and world-building are essential components to this Western show influenced by Eastern storytelling.

And anyone in this thread looking for compelling and beautiful anime art...look no further than Cowboy Bebop.
One of the most visually amazing shows ever created.

I also enjoy the animation on the Matt Groening and Seth MacFarlane shows, as well as shows like Archer and Frisky Dingo.

 

This is truly bad animation but there is one point right at the beginning where I bet the producers saw it, did a hand to the head and went "awww crap". In the title sequence, there is a black and white head shot with a face and white space helmet. The words Space Angel, the name of the show so probably the most important piece of information in the title sequence, are in white bold face font with no outline and they fall RIGHT OVER THE WHITE HELMET causing the letters to the word "SPACE" to virtually disappear. That ain't good...
And the human mouths thing is always weird.

 

I worked on a ton of animated TV series in the 1980s and 1990s, and the vast majority of it was absolute schlock. But as one (famous) producer told me: "we're not trying to make artistically-significant, profound cartoons here... I'm just trying to keep my staff of 90 people employed."

I will say the Disney TV shows of that period (Wuzzles, Duck Tales, Gummi Bears) were really, really good, but they cost a bloody fortune -- at least 3 or 4 times what the equivalent DIC/TMS/HB/Ruby-Spears shows cost, which I think was around $150K-$200K apiece. In 1980s dollars, I bet an 8-minute 1940s Warner Bros. cartoon would've cost like $500K, and nobody was gonna spend that for TV animation.

Having said that: I have it on very good authority that the first 5 or 6 Animaniacs episodes cost about $1 million each, because of changes requested by Spielberg prior to air. But those were an exception rather than the rule.

 

A great read if you are curious about the classic era cartoon studios:

 

So this article is completely wrong? (I don't mean this as a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely asking):

Flash animation - Wikipedia

Excerpt:

Several popular online series are currently produced in Adobe Flash, such as the Emmy Award-winning Off-Mikes, produced by ESPN and Animax Entertainment; Gotham Girls, produced by Warner Bros.; Crime Time, produced by Future Thought Productions and Homestar Runner produced by Mike and Matt Chapman.

Many of today’s animated television series are produced using Macromedia Flash, inspired by both the comparatively low cost of production and the unique arrays of new animation styles that can be achieved through the medium, including Metalocalypse, Being Ian, Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends, Kappa Mikey, Hi Hi Puffy AmiYumi, Happy Tree Friends, Astroblast!, Odd Job Jack, Little Einsteins, Wow! Wow! Wubbzy!, the BBC Three show Monkey Dust, the Channel Four show Modern Toss, Yin Yang Yo!, Alejo & Valentina, Angry Birds Toons, Aaagh! It's the Mr. Hell Show, Jake and the Never Land Pirates, My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic on The Hub (however, this show uses a heavily modified version of Flash 8), Cinemax's Eli's Dirty Jokes, Queer Duck from Showtime, The Mr. Peabody and Sherman Show from Netflix and Shorties Watching Shorties on Comedy Central.

Other TV shows, such as Home Movies and Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law, which are both broadcast on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim programming block, have switched to Adobe Flash from other animation technology and on Disney XD with Kick Buttowski: Suburban Daredevil.

 

Today is a different story. This article seems to be quite old! I remember watching Homestar Runner like 15 years ago!

 

I think that the early Flintstones episodes were of a higher level of 60s television animation than was standard. Perhaps Johnny Quest as well. I am pretty sure there were some Woody Woodpecker shorts produced for TV in the 60s that were better than average animation - for television.

I just remember a lot of baaaaaaad animation when I grew up in the early 70s. Even when I was 6 years old, I could see how much better an old Bugs Bunny or Heckel & Jeckel short was compared to nonsense like The Archies.

 

It's a travesty that Gummi Bears wasn't finished by Disney on DVD. They released one volume and then abandoned it. It's fantastic children's fare.

 

Well that should fix anime right up for Chris

 

That was a very good show. The Wuzzles was the one nobody saw, and I actually think I liked that one even more.

 

I wonder how would the TS rank Disney's TV productions of the late 80s such as Duck Tales, Darkwing Duck, Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers etc.

 

I used to have conversations like this with Gil Inverson, who was the head Hanna-Barbera producer in charge of post-production (editing, sound & color) throughout the 1980s and 1990s.

When I brought up Jonny Quest, Gil shook his head sadly and said <paraphrasing> "that's a sore spot for Bill (Hanna) and Joe (Barbera). They lost a fortune on that show because of the higher quality of animation they did for prime time. But for many years afterwards, the networks would complain, 'how come this new show of yours doesn't look nearly as good as Jonny Quest?'" So it was a real thorn in their side, because they knew they'd never, ever be able to spend that kind of money for animation again. And that was also true of the 1980s "revised" Jonny Quest show, which looked much crappier than the original.

 

Created and drawn by comics legend Doug Wildey. I don't think they make 'em like this any more!

 

I thought the forum was politics free. How come Chazro gets to show Mike Pence fighting off a RINO?

 

It's Chuck Jones Birthday today 9/21. To me he was the greatest of the greats from the old school WB days.

Pat

 

I liked some recent DC Justice League and Superhero Girls things enough, though not in the target age range. Also I like Teen Titans Go, the zany little things hitting each other new one more than the sort of weird Japanesey attempt one just before it. A lot depends on voice acting for me though. I think I like Flapjack as much for the voices and writing as the art style which is semi-grotesque. I liked Chowder a bit too. That CGI thing with alien rabbits is usually fun, and a new Canadian show which seems similar to me titled Grizzly & the Lemmings also!

Now Shaun the Sheep, that I will watch even if I've seen it twice before! I love any kind of decent stop-motion animation stuff.