Upgrade from LS50's?

I've finally returned to my listening system after about 8 months, and even though I am enjoying the sound it feels as though something is missing. The LS50's are nice and all but they don't deliver the scale and soundstage I'd like to hear when I listen to "large scale" recordings such as orchestras or even some prog rock recordings with a big sound. My budget is around $1500 to $2000. So far people have recommended Magnepan 1.7i's as a good step up from the LS50's. Can anybody with experience tell me how the maggies compare to the KEF sound?

 

Think about used Revel Performa M22 speakers. Unbelievable sounding speakers. About $800 used. Replaced with newer Revel speakers at $4K per pair. The used Revel are inexpensive due not many audiophiles know Revel.

 

I think the understanding here is that you need to have bigger drivers to get to the scale you want. Either bookshelf or floor standers. I found 8" drivers work well at the next level of scale from where you are now. Look around for speakers like this...there are plenty enough to choose from.

 

Given that they seem to be rather bass shy, why not try a powered sub or two. This can really help when you want to add some scale and weight to more demanding music.

jeff

 

Based on what you want, I don't think electrostats are where you want to go, unless you also have a budget for a subwoofer.

If you had said, I want an even more realistic, nuanced, life sized presentation of vocals, piano, chamber music or small jazz combo, sure, non-traditional speakers can provide that . . . But orchestral and prog require air to be moved and I think you're going to have to look at a larger box than what you have now.

 

I've owned LS50s and Maggie 1.7is. Read this review:
Spatial Audio factory tour, Hologram M4 review | Darko.Audio
With the exception of the Zu's, with which I have no experience, I agree with all his assessments. The current version is an upgrade from the pair he reviewed.

The Maggies don't provide nearly the visceral impact nor do they image as well as the Spatials.

BTW, in my system, LS50s were more detailed and imaged better than the 1.7s. The pinpoint localization of instruments throughout the soundtage is mostly diffused through the 1.7s - not surprising given the sound is projected at nearly equal volume from a 5' tall panel.

 

I can get the best large scale music "illusion" in my living room, sitting about 9' or more away from my speakers and subs.

I currently have LS50 in my bedroom and it is great for female vocal. Indeed, when I listen like 5 feet away, the scale is small. But, I also played with it briefly in my large living room, sitting like 10 ft away. As I recall, it can give large scale music illusion.

So, have you played with different speakers position yet in your room? Try multiple things like:
placing them further apart
Increase the speakers' sitting height
Sit further away from the speakers

 

Id say any decent 6.5 inch based 2 way will be a majore upgrade in term of bass and scale.

kef ls50 use a 5 inch midbass, any speaker with the same size of midbass will not be a serious upgrade, more sidegrade.

try to look for a decent 2 way using 6.5 inch or better, 8 inch midbass. this will give you better scale, better bass, less distortion, ect

 

I'm enjoying the heck out of my new Polk LSiM 707's (tower speakers) which I picked up for just 1600 bucks during a recent sale at Adorama.

LSiM707

 

Those are some really nice speakers, you must be loving life more than ever now

 

Why not stay with KEF? I would go for KEF R3- to these ears the sweetspot model in the R series. It has a more engaging and balanced sound than its siblings IMHO. Highly recommended!

 

I have the LSiM707's and they are fantastic speaker's. They also make the 705's which are a bit smaller (the 707's weigh 99-lbs. each), and less expensive.

The current pricing seems to be a little bit more expensive then they were when you bought them. The LSiM705's retail for $1,499/each. and are currently being offered for 43% off at $849.99 at this link only.

Polk Audio LSiM705 47" Floorstanding Tower Speaker, 22Hz-40kHz, Single, Mt Vernon Cherry




Polk also has a 40% off sale on their RTi series. This makes their RTiA7, which are normally $1k/pr. now $600/pr.



Hard to beat these for $600/pr. They are a more conventionally sounding speaker than the Maggie's.

The RTiA9's which I own, are normally $1,500/pr. are now $900/pr.



The RTiA9's are really large speaker's and are best in a large room. They are also 21" deep.

The RTi series is available in black veneer or real cherry wood veneer.

All of these are some nice speaker's to consider.

 

IMHO, I’ve had Maggies and I think if you’re not happy with the way prog rock sounds on your LS-50’s, the 1.7 would be a step backwards. I’d go with some JBL’s with the 12” woofer. I have the new L00 and they have no problem with visceral impact.

 

I was also going to suggest trying a sub; a real advantage is that they can be put anywhere - within reason
D

 

If you’re looking for scale and soundstage, to me that reads like “bigger sound” which equates to more air pressurization. Which only going to floorstanders or bigger monitors will give you. Kef R500 would be a good option if you like the Kef house sound, more impactful bass from the R series as well. They are going on close out for the old models so you might score a deal.

Adding a sub to the LS50 is an improvement but will only take you so far. I’ve heard them multiple times and while impressive they don’t deliver large scale quite as effectively.

 

I'll also suggest trying a subwoofer if possible. Do you have a local friend who will let you audition his/her sub? If not, you can always buy a cheap/****ty one on craigslist for $50 or so. It won't sound great but it will give you an idea of what a good sub can do to augment your LS50s. If you think this will solve the issues you're having, you can then look for a better unit.

My advice for using a sub for music (as opposed to home theatre): turn the volume down, way down. Most people have the subwoofer volume turned up high enough that it overwhelms everything else and this is (almost certainly) not what you want. I set the subwoofer volume at about 12 o'clock and then (going back and forth to my normal listening position) slowly turn it down until I don't *think* I hear the sub at all. Take note of the setting and then turn the volume all the way to zero (this is just for your own personal confirmation that the sub IS actually contributing), then turn it back to the previous setting.

Good luck!

 

"Scale" and "soundstage" are different things. Which leads me to a question-if you play works by smaller ensembles at modest volumes, how is the soundstage? The LS50s have good engineering, but a 5" cone IS carrying an awful lot of sound, and the weakness of the coaxial design is that the woofer cone is essentially a horn/waveguide in front of the tweeter. As the cone moves more and more, the loading changes more and more. Which is why this concept is pretty much fine for a mid/tweet combo, but challenged in a full range setup.
Anyway, if the soundstage is actually OK in those situations, maybe it is the woofer excursion reducing your scale etc. In which case, IF your electronics can properly connect a subwoofer, meaning a highpass filter is cutting the lowest frequencies out of your main amp and LS50s, that may well solve what you want. The other alternative speakers I really like, at the top or somewhat above your range, are the Monitor Audio Silver 300s. Sounded great with all types of music from classical to live Motorhead!

 

I would've thought so too but that's really not the case, at least it has no audible detriment I can detect in a 12" coaxial arrangement. The 2-way, 12" coaxial Spatial M4s at $2K/pair blow the MA Silvers away, not even remotely in the same league. Tannoy uses a similar arrangement with their highly-regarded Legacy speakers. There really are great speakers out there that don't adhere to the textbook design principles of narrow baffle, 3-way tower.

 

I don't want to recommend Snell or Audio Note for every speaker recommendation thread, but I had LS50's and Snell J's in the same room at the same time for a year or two. I ended up selling the LS50's for the same reasons you're looking elsewhere and have kept the Snells. I've also concurrently had Vienna Acoustics Bach Grands in the same room and would also choose those over the LS50's if scale is of importance, which it is to me.

I haven't heard them, but maybe those Buchardt S400's might be worth a look too?

 

I tried the LS50s with a subwoofer and it sounded better- but the sound was missing that hard hitting tight bass impact. This type of impact happens above subwoofer frequencies (e.g. 100-125 Hz) that the Ls50s 5" woofer would have to handle- and they fell short of the goal.
Magnepans will have a large soundstage but require lots of power to be dynamic, lots of floor space and at least 3-4 feet from the wall behind them and also do not have very good bass.
Of the speakers I have heard the KEF R5 (out of budget but you should get a good trade in for the LS50s) do have a huge sound stage and these will deliver the goods.
Of the speakers I have not heard, the Spatial Audio with its large format drivers, high efficiency and open baffle design will be hard to beat if scale is your main goal (at least on paper).
If space is a premium, the Buchardt S400 is a special speaker by all reports that is capable of big scale sound because of its coherent design (wave guide for exact integration between woofer and tweeter) relatively high efficiency and deep, extended bass from the rear passive radiator.

 

How big/flexible is your listening space?

If you got the room, then Spatial M4 series can

I've heard Spatials at two different audio shows; both times the experience was like being immersed/surrounded by the music - literally swimming in the soundstage.

 

I'd imagine it to be far less of an issue with dual 12" woofers than a single 5.25" since it's an excursion-related phenomenon.

 

Maybe, though I didn't notice any issues with the LS50s either. Other than the obvious issues of scale and bass noted by others, I found their detail, decay, ability to "disappear," and pinpoint imaging exceeded most towers in this price range. One of their big weaknesses is inefficiency. Unfortunately, they require a high-current amp, which is why I suspect many don't get to experience them at their best.

 

A largish room with plenty of breathing space. They're placed >3' from all walls, and toed in to cross in front of the listening position. Soundstage is massive but I still get most of the pinpoint imaging I've gotten from small monitors.

 

do you find the Spatials harsh, or too forward in any way? I ask this because having owned a couple of TAnnoy dual concentric, my complain is always related to the harshness...