What vintage is a Red & Purple UK Atlantic label vinyl pressing of Déjà Vu, please?*

...with "Polydor Records Limited" on the bottom of the label, and a Kinney distribution sticker inside the gatefold?

I have looked all over, and couldn't find anything about the non-US Atlantic labels...

 

OK - got to be later than 1970 as the album was released then and before 1973 when the label changed from the Plum/Red Polydor distributed label to the Kinney group distribution and became Green and Orange.

 

Fabulous! Thanks, John!

 

My copy of "The Great Rock Discography" lists the Led Zep catalogue as being re-issued with the Kinney catalogue numbers in March 1972; the listing for CSN&Y simply says 1972, but I would think it's safe to assume that their catalogue was re-issued at the same time. I've no idea how long Polydor copies remained before stocks ran dry ...

 

OK here is a copy (closed ebay auction) that appears to be like mine all over:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DEJA-VU-CSNY-RE...dZViewItemQQptZUK_Records?hash=item1c101bb48a

The thing is I have this white Kinney sticker, with what probably is a Kinney catalogue number, on top of the inside cover printing information and so forth. But I can see enough through it to make out the E. J. DAY credits and all the rest. Is this guy in the right in claiming that this cover is MEGA RARE?

And now I can also see that the matrixes are A1 / B1 too. So my plum label (which I believe is the correct lingo) copy would then be from the initial run. Would that run have been a bit slow in sales in the UK and Europe, then Kinney taking over would have put out remaining original copies carrying their sticker? Were CSN&Y as big over the pond as they were in North America?

 

This happened with a copy of Led Zeppelin 3 I had - Kinney record with a restickered Polydor album cover.

 

But it's a Polydor Records Limited pressed (label credit) Atlantic LP, not Kinney. The only Kinney mention at all is on the little sticker.... But I must say I am now quite confused about this...

 

I havnt got a clue what you people are talking about is Deja Vu the name of a group, record label or album ? ?

 

You can see it in the link, post #5. A famous album from a famous folk-rock group of the 70s.

 

When they took over (IIRC Atlantic's Licensing for the UK was assigned to the Kinney group as a UK operation of WEA), Kinney stickered everything still in stock. You don't have another record company's address or name on your record. Product already in the chain was just left to sell. They didn't re-press or re-print anything until they had to. You can find Polydor pressings in Kinney covers and vice versa.

They even got the metal parts, or at least the last stamper sets. Plenty of green/orange Atlantic UK stuff out there with both Polydor and Kxxxxx numbers in the run-out.

 

What is it that is confusing you? Is it the fact that the matrices are A1/B1? We know (well ... pretty damn certain) that the album cover is from March '72 or later; are you expecting different matrix numbers to be on the disc at this period?

 

Thanks Mike - my LZ 3 was a Kinney record in a Polydor cover that had been stickered. The vinyl had both the Kinney and the Polydor numbers in the dead wax. The first LZ album I saw with Kinney only labels and covers was "Houses Of The Holy"

 

Well I suppose that it depends on whether or not the original pressing quickly sold in vast numbers and needed to be repressed... I'll tell you what's really confusing me here: it's this business of Polydor printing records from Atlantic in the first place!... Weren't these two companies supposed to be some of the big competitor Majors in those days?

 

There was already another link in parallel with Polydor and Atlantic. US Atco records were often released under Polydor in the UK (for example, Cream albums).

 

At various times, Polydor manufactured records for a number of labels in the UK. Among them were Island, Charisma, Mercury, Track and Atlantic. UK Polydor pressings were some of the finest vinyl pressings ever, IMO. They are made of shiny, glossy vinyl. When undamaged, they will play with minimal surface noise, and possess a musical tone. UK Polydor pressings can be easily identified by their deadwax inscriptions which have have matrices listed like this: A//1 B//1. or this: AΔ1 BΔ1. The matrix codes will be followed by a series of usually three or four more stamped numbers.

Here's the deadwax of my UK Plum Deja Vu:
SIDE ONE: 2401 001* AΔ1 1 1 3
SIDE TWO: 2401 001 BΔ2 11 1 2

FWIW, Kinney pressings that used Polydor metal parts will have the Polydor deadwax, plus an additional stamp with the Kinney matrix number (K50008A, for example for Led Zeppelin IV)

Your plum Deja Vu vinyl should be a through and through Polydor pressing. If it was a Kinney vinyl pressing, it would have the Kinney Matrix in the deadwax, and would probably be on thinner, less glossy vinyl. All the Atlantic Kinney pressings I've seen came with orange and green labels.

How do you like the sound of your Plum Deja Vu? I imagine it was cut from tape copies, not master tapes, like some the US editions possibly were. Still, the Plum Deja Vu has a cool sound, with some obvious compression applied. YMMV

 

Without going into too much convoluted history of record companies, cross-country licensing is a funny thing. Record companies weren't always worldwide conglomerates.

So Polydor records had the license for manufacturing and distribution for Atlantic in the UK, and sometimes Europe (though that's confusing too. Think of all those Hendrix albums on Barclay..). Polydor records (UK) used Philips to make the records. Philips, later Phonogram, made the best records in Europe and in many countries too. Wherever they're made, the records are unique and distinctive.

Anyway, that's how Polydor UK made Atlantic records up to about 1972.

 

Do you happen to know where their pressing plants were? I've been trying to find the origin of the UK Polydor pressings, which sure were nice. Were the records actually pressed in England?

 

Side two really is BΔ1, sorry.

 

Darn, I was going to ask you the same question.

No, I'm not sure. I have it in my mind that the Pye plant at Mitcham was the place. Clearly the vintage Pye, Nixa, and Philips discs made in the UK were done there, and by extension the Columbia licensed CBS discs (these are the heavy stiff discs with sharp edges). At some point, around 1967 (?) I believe the plant had to be overhauled, moved, refitted or something and at that point everything became wonderfully Philips. Unfortunately after a few years there wasn't much music to be pressed there as CBS, and WEA/Kinney went off with their own UK plants (CBS successfully, WEA less so). When the plant was shuttered, all Polydor and Philips disks became imported and sported 'Made in Germany/Holland/France' stickers. Actually, the Philips labels have a space that has always read 'Made in XXX' and I have many 'Made in England' from this period.

 

Thanks for the great information!

We need to start a thread on UK pressing plants. As valuable and collectible as the actual vinyl records have become, it's surprising there's not much historical information on the pressings that can be readily found. And, what little I see is suspect and likely inaccurate.

 

If I see the words "Deja Vu" along with the word "Atlantic" in reference to a record label, my first guess is that it's talking about the Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young album from 1970.

 

Sounds pretty good! Though I have nothing else to compare it too. What impresses me is the soundstage and the color or the "grain" of the voices... My memory of an original US pressing I once had (and played on the same gear) is a bass guitar that had a little more "beef" to it. But the cool thing with these UK Polydor- (and the likes) pressed LPs is the hairline scratches barely count at all! And between tracks is quietness!

Here are my own matrix codes (and indeed, no other codes than that):

SIDE ONE: 2401 001* AΔ1 1 3 13
SIDE TWO: 2401 001 BΔ1 14 1

That Delta symbol is upside down though, but I guess we won't be splitting hairs!

And thanks for the thorough help!

 

Yes, you are correct--is there an upside down triangle symbol available somewhere for the computer keyboard?

Lots of people type the Polydor matrix codes with a "v" to symbolize the upside down delta. Av1 Bv1, etc...

 

In the old days, I preferentially ordered UK vinyl and had copies of both the couch album and Deja Vu on Kinney vinyl. Neither were a patch on the US vinyl, apart from the ubiquitous surface noise during the recycled vinyl years.
Bass roll off was the main problem - there is some very deep bass on, in particular, Long Time Gone

 

Sounds like the copy of LZIII I sold was the same as Johns, with the Kinney sticker covering the Polydor credits but the Polydor credits still being on the label.





Dan