When did John decide to leave The Beatles/what was the "final straw"?

John vs. Paul. Ugh.

The Beatles collaborated on perhaps every song they did. That is why they are the greatest band.

Yesterday? George Martin's incredible idea and execution of a string arrangement elevate this beautiful ballad
And I Love Her? Harrison's incredible delicate guitar solo. Further, George Martin told them something was needed in the middle. Then we get this quote from Dick James:

"They were laying down the tracks and doing the melody lines of the song And I Love Her. It was a very simple song and quite repetitive. George Martin and I looked at each other and the same thought sparked off in both of our minds. It was proving to be, although plain and a warm and sympathetic song, just too repetitive, with the same phrase of repeating. George Martin told the boys, 'Both Dick and I feel that the song is just lacking the middle. It's too repetitive, and it needs something to break it up.' I think it was John who shouted, 'OK, let's have a tea break', and John and Paul went to the piano and, while Mal Evans was getting tea and some sandwiches, the boys worked at the piano. Within half an hour they wrote, there before our very eyes, a very constructive middle to a very commercial song. Although we know it isn't long, it's only a four bar middle, nevertheless it was just the right ingredients to break up the over repetitive effect of the original melody."

Do I need to go on?

I don't think it meant Paul was jealous of George, John or George Martin. And I don't think John was paranoid and jealous of Paul helping on his songs, causing him to want out in 1969. What really dispels this myth, is that John's first solo work is a masterpiece, and widely regarded as the best the solo Beatles created.

Hit single? Instant Karma - check
Critically acclaimed album? POB - check

John was not jealous of Paul and running out of steam. He was at his creative peak, but moving in a different direction.

 

Finally, a mature response to this issue has been posted. Thanks.

 

Are you talking about Stand By Me on the Rock n Roll album?

Different strokes but I find that it is one of the worst Lennon vocals. He could have done it so much better. Think of the singing style he used on Double Fantasy.

 

I thought Paul often brought them finished songs later on which annoyed John, while George's Indian songs were apparently recorded minus the other Beatles

we know a number of the 'White Album' songs did not feature all four Beatles (only Paul on some of his very 'solo' tracks, likewise just John on 'Julia' and no Lennon present on George's 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps' - while how many Beatles were on John's 'Good Night' besides Ringo, The Mike Sammes Singers and lush orchestra....?) while neither did 'Ballad of John & Yoko' or later finally 'I Me Mine'

so the Beatles collaborating on perhaps EVERY song they did is questionable

also I've never been that mad on John's POB album - it has a few nice lean rockers but 'Working Class Hero' always cracks me up....coming as it did from a guy who lived in the very 'middle class' Menlove Gardens, Liverpool and who in truth never ever did a '9 to 5' paid employment working class job in his life...and got a (then massive) one hundred UK pounds 21st birthday present from an uncle (much to Paul and George's envy)

let's keep it historically real guys !

not saying John didn't work damn hard in The Beatles (of course he/they all did - plus all the travelling - like most bands had) , but bear in mind he was doing something he loved playing Rock & Roll then pop music and later being even more creative etc - he never had to be at a depressing place of work each day and work at a job he might loathe until the working day was over as such like many 'working class heroes' do each day or 'Hard Days Night' , for John it was school, then art college, then playing in a group etc - the closest they got to doing a '9 to 5' job was the early morning daily filming of the two mid sixties Beatles and 1966 Dick Lester war film, plus later 'Let it Be' at Twickenham - which all four detested doing as can be seen in the film !

'Working Class Hero' may apply to YOU or Me etc...and John of course was an artist posing a question, making a point re the song - but it was never really applicable to him personally and we should keep that in mind

a lot of the POB material is John's 'primal scream' stuff re his life - where he sounds very sorry for himself, yes it's very sad re his mother and his absent Dad (but then Julian might feel likewise later) etc...but to be honest I find too much self indulgence just bores me !

Many artists have had tragic backgrounds and unhappy lives, but harping on about it is unwise I think, of course I loved most of his and The Beatles music but who John 'didn't believe in...' really wasn't of any interest to me at all !

 

Here in the UK Come Together was the 6th most played Beatle song this last month The Beatles - Compare My Radio

 

That could've been Lennon's response to McCartney's C-Moon. HA!

 

Did John ever say that Working Class Hero was about himself? I'm just asking, I don't know.

 

Not sure if John mentioned that in an interview, but the lyrics make it seem implicit that John considers himself to be a "working class hero":

A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be
If you want to be a hero well just follow me
If you want to be a hero well just follow me

 

John did say this in Rolling Stone magazine in 1971:

"I think it's for the people like me who are working class - whatever, upper or lower - who are supposed to be processed into the middle classes, through the machinery, that's all. It's my experience, and I hope it's just a warning to people. I'm saying it's a revolutionary song; not the song itself but that it's a song for the revolution."

 

Lennon's parents were both working class. He was 'taken in' by his aunt who had also been working class until she married George Smith who owned a dairy and a house.

But would Lennon have inherited George and Mimi's house after Mimi's death? Given that he was a difficult teenager and only interested in playing his guitar, Mimi may well have excluded him from her will.

She famously told Lennon that he's never make any money with his guitar. In which case, if this turned out to be true, Lennon was well aware he'd have had to get a job at some juncture especially since he'd got Cynthia pregnant and married her.

So sure Lennon had a lower middle class upbringing but his mindset was working class, his parents were working class and his musician friends were working class.

He may well have become a lecturer at the art school if the Beatles hadn't become successful.

But you know what? I think he'd have been so bored with his life with Cynthia that he may have become a merchant seaman like his father and Aunt Mimi's father just to get out of the house.

 

that is correct, John's parents were solid working class but thanks to his upbringing he was indeed in the food processor to lower middle class, he felt working class but but really he wasn't and maybe that was part of his frustration, part of him felt a bit of a fraud ? A Northern accent does not confer instant working classness, many solidly middle class professional/business northerners spoke/speak with regional accents, Brian Epstein was one of those who did not of course but working in the field he did he may have thought RP a better sound for him.

 

In a way all this is a moot point. What counts is the public perception of Lennon and for the huge majority Lennon was a working class lad from Liverpool. And for that same majority he had made it very big and so was indeeed a working class hero.

That's why the song he wrote about his fame is totally valid.

 

Yes that is the version of "Stand By Me" I was referencing. In my opinion it's a classic rendition. I love it.

 

The lyric would have been better as:
If you want to be a hero then don’t follow me.

 

Let me think about that, but I see what you mean.

 

The lyric as it stands is the height of sarcasm and irony. He's mocking himself and his standing throughout the song, and the fact that people have turned him into a "tin god." I think it's better as it is.

 

John wasn’t above liking John a whole lot. That is a lot to read into his intent to get to sarcasm and mockery. None of that existed elsewhere in the song - I don’t see where it makes sense there.

Maybe he just meant it as is.

 

I wonder why John didnt do a lot of live concerts after the break up. His last one was with Elton John in 1974, and even before he just had a couple of them. He seemed to enjoy it,

 

the working class criticism has some validity but it is complex, for sure his upbringing was more solid lower middle and he would never have been expected for a Billy Casper blue collar destination , but John would have still identified himself as working class as he was from solid working class stock but as he says in the song he was one of those being processed for moving up the chain to be classless and free. Agreed a Working class hero is a bit of a stretch but not without some foundation, however it is somewhat ironic that he became much more of a hero the the middle class protestor kids. you wouldn't have seen too many working class kids under a police horse at Grosvenor square for example...

as for the songs, they pretty much did collaborate before the White album and thats where the rot sets in, Abbey Road saw a brief return to a slightly more collaborative approach but imho the Beatles can be divided into to pre and post White album...

 

I believe it was when the lads had stopped for a quick bite before going into the studio. Unfortunately, there were only three straws left, selfishly the other Beatles took them. John said "That's the final straw??!!!" He stormed out, never to be heard from again! The End! Kind of a sad and pathetic ending to the greatest rock band in history, but there it is.

 

I admit I haven't read this whole thread but thinking about what others have said about it being the right time makes me think about how so often in popular music changes seem to happen at the turn of each decade.

At the end of the 50's Elvis goes into the army and at the start of the next decade comes back a different, tamer performer

Many groups seem to split up at the end of the 60's. As well as The Beatles, there was Simon and Garfunkel, The Supremes.

Consequently we talk about an artists best period is in terms of decades, eg Sinatra's 50's, Dylan's 60's, Bowie's 70's period, Prince's 80's. Or even talk about artists worst periods in terms of decades.

Just a thought......

 

Hope many pence was "postcard rate" at the time? John didn't seem to know.

 

Most people assume the reason John ultimately walked was the whole issue with Paul taking credit for being the Walrus. As John later commented, he was just saying that to be nice--he was really the Walrus. But he could never get people to understand that.

The thing was, John was sensitive as ****, and he ultimately couldn't take it anymore.

 

None of that had anything to of course with him having had to sue the other three to undue the total mess they created by hiring the crook Klein.

 

I agree that the POB appearing at the Toronto festival was possibly the single biggest event that precipitated the break-up. John used to scoff at Paul's suggestion that the Beatles should go play live somewhere and suddenly playing live in Toronto fired him up, that he could do it with Yoko and without the others.

Note, that the year before, John had done pretty much the same thing at the Rolling Stones Rock n Roll Circus, but while that may have been a novelty then, the POB at Toronto seemed like an audition for a new backing group.