When did John decide to leave The Beatles/what was the "final straw"?

It was definitely up in the air for Paul (even he wasn't sure what was going to happen with the group), but Spector's changes to Let It Be as well as the then state of Apple were the two final blows. He knew what he was doing even though his answers were left at "there isn't a time when Lennon/McCartney will work together again."

 

He wasn't so upset when Paul told him on the phone a few days before the announcement hit (John apparently told him, in response, "that makes two of us that have accepted it"). Definitely because John wanted to be the one to "officially" end it, even more so since he had actually quit before (and Paul got to have the last word).

 

The turning point, IMO, was when John realized he couldn't continue as a "Beatle" on the same level as Paul could, by mid-1969.

Which means.....John's songwriting quality and interest in being a Beatle had waned to the point where he had to walk instead of just phoning it in like he did in Let It Be and (most of) Abbey Road. John's ego wasn't going to let him be compared to Paul's stronger A-side and album material and George's rapidly improving songwriting within the group any more, but he could start over with Yoko and be the cool, hip, avante garde Ex-Beatle.

Also, John's competitive nature didn't allow him to stick around on a sinking ship. You will recall how upset John got when Paul announced to the media that he was quitting the Beatles...when John had actually quit half a year previously. It's not unlike the argument between The Who and Jimi Hendrix at Monterey Pop over who was going to go on stage first--neither wanted to follow the other. In the same way, John wanted to quit first, instead of finding himself in a group where George or Paul walked out first. He started the group and he wanted to be the one who ended the group.

His partnership with Yoko gave him the confidence to finally jump ship. John stated that he thought about leaving the group as early as 1966 when they stopped touring, but he didn't seem confident enough then, in the midst of his acid indulgence period, to do it then. He also ruminated about the end of the group when Brian Epstein died....but that was put on hold when they planned MMT and going to India. When all that fell apart, he became involved with Yoko and heroin heavily...which probably forced the issue---he couldn't pretend any longer.

So that was the turning point...when he realized it was ending for the various reasons anyways....he wasn't contributing at his former level of excellence....and him wanting to be the one who walked first.

 

Interesting. Mitch Mitchell is great, but he didn't play the song right at the RnR Circus.

 

He had 2 number #1 hits in 1969, BOJY went to number one in most places & Come Together did in America and other places.
Give Peace A Chance did pretty good on the charts too.

 

The word "Yes" on the ceiling

 

Yes, there is a theory that John didn't really mean to quit, but Paul called his bluff. No doubt Lewisohn will let us know full story in about 2043.

 

Paul was supposedly very depressed when John quit, whether John meant it or not, I think Paul believed him.

 

What support is there for that theory?

John didn't do anything Beatle-related after July 1969. He doesn't even appear on half the tracks on Abbey Road. He managed to be out of town when they reconvened to record I Me Mine in Jan. 1970. He had no problem appearing without the others at the Toronto Peace Festival. He supposedly told Eric Clapton he was leaving the group then. He didn't seem to have any interest in the shelved Get Back album, so he gave the tapes to Phil Spector.

 

Ringo plays drums on the record. Then when Lennon performed it live Harrison joined Lennon & ( Clapton ) Keith Moon onstage to do the song.

So I'm not sure. Maybe only McCartney didn't like it. Or as someone said a couple of posts back. Maybe some of the Beatles didn't want to stop whatever they were doing that day & run to the studio for John.

Personally I wonder if some of the Beatles objected because Lennon's plan was to immediately make it the next Beatles single. Instead of just recording it for the next project & seeing how it turned out.

I like Cold Turkey mostly. A bit like Lennon's Abbey Road songs on steroids. I see a resemblance to I Want You & Come Together. But with Lennon's heroin angst instead of Beatley pop production dialing it back a little.

I don't even know that Lennon was even annoyed that McCartney & Harrison didn't play on the single. Did he ever say he was ? Anybody know about that ? Ringo did play on it.

 

Whether or not they wanted to play on it is a different issue from whether or not they wanted to have it put out as a Beatles product.

And really their saying no to releasing Cold Turkey is significant because it was the first time they really said no to John about anything.

OK they said no to Mary Jane as well, but they gave him Rev 9 at about the same time.

 

I suppose Mark Lewisohn will give us the real reason for the break up, 2053 when volume 3 of the Beatles Tune in drop out is released.

 

It's never actually been said that the Beatles rejected the song, John only said in an interview that they "weren't ready" to record it. As in, they had just recorded a full album, and wanted a break from each other. Perhaps that added fuel to John's wanting to quit, as he no longer had pull in the group anymore, unlike the old days where him (or Paul) would write a song and they would follow his (or their) lead, but now it was all Paul.

Ironically, the Beatles did issue a new single around the time John wanted to do "Cold Turkey"... two songs from the month old Abbey Road to keep money flowing at Apple.

 

I think Brian was the glue that kept them together.

 

I think you're going in the right direction there, but maybe with an element missing. John could still write great songs in 1969, but he must've been frustrating for him when the great personal songs he had were being sidelined in favour of the less personal (and often inferior) stuff that his heart probably wasn't into.

By all accounts, since the double whammy of Rishikesh & Yoko in spring 1968 John really believed his best songs were the most personal ones. There was no way he'd be content to keep churning out songs-to-order for Beatles projects - especially if Paul decided on the project every time.

No coincidence that his strongest Beatles songwriting post-1966 was on the White Album, where there was no "grand project", just the plan that they record the bundle of songs they had from Rishikesh.

In a way, George had a similar issue to John - his music was becoming increasingly spiritual, and he must've been frustrated at the appalling treatment that obviously great songs like All Things Must Pass had from Paul & John, when something as throwaway as For You Blue made the album.

 

John told Paul, "I want a divorce." I remember when my parents divorced, that seemed pretty g-ddamn final to me. Lennon also referred to them in interviews in this period as "Beatles, so-called."

In the 70-71 period Klein did try to do a fair bit of maneuvering behind the scenes trying to get The Beatles back together somehow- or at least, barring that, keeping their split from getting too nasty. The You Never Give Me Your Money book goes into this in great gory detail.

The whole debacle with the Let It Be album showed Paul he'd never win this battle, it proved that he was outnumbered at Apple.

 

The only one who knew when he had enough of the Beatles is John himself.
But whe can not ask him anymore.

 

I would have loved a Beatles Disco album.

 

Not quite as easy to assemble as The Beatles' Yacht Rock album, but doable. Heavy on the Ringo and Paul, I'd reckon...

 

While both options seem sane from a modern viewpoint, in 1968 or 1969, there was little precident for this sort of arrangement.

Sure, the Beatles pioneered a lot of things we now take for granted.. but given the business mess that was Apple, it's a big ask to have them pioneer the "Band on hiatus for a few years while we do solo projects" thing that bands ranging from CSN to Genesis to Radiohead do.

And that's the clincher. The label, the fans, heck EVERYONE was expecting at least one Beatles album a year. The media already went into fits in late 1966 when they found out the Beatles weren't that keen on touring in 1967!

The only way I think it could've worked & eased those "they're gonna break up now" worries is if they'd been upfront about the schedule - eg releasing a joint statement saying "We won't release an album in 1970, but we will in 1971". Something definite like that.

 

As far as Lennon wanting out of the band near the end. Another trial balloon or agreement Lennon spoke about, in one of his interviews about the band.

Lennon said "it was getting too democratic for it's own good". Someone had proposed each Beatle would get their 4 tracks per album. A passive agressive Lennon said he only cared about his 4 songs, then at another time the crack about too democratic for it's own good.



Now whether Beatles albums were going to increase to 16 songs, or Ringo would only get two or something else I don't know.

I can't even say whether this 4 tracks each was some type of sarcasm or a legitimate intention for future albums.

Needless to say, while the band was disentegrating, there were various ideas and proposals for compromise to keep them together. But between Yoko's arrival as some kind of 5th Beatle or constant presence. & The groups 3 to 1 split for & against Allen Klein as manager there were intractable issues between band members.

Speaking on this whole matter of the group breaking up. McCartney told his daughter Mary who was interviewing him, in the Wingspan documentary. To paraphrase McCartney said " I don't know why specifically the Beatles broke up, I just know that the Beatles had to break up, needed to break up"

In a recent interview, within the last several months McCartney made a pointed comment picked up by the newswire services " Yoko Ono didin't break up the Beatles "

As far as the Quality of Lennon's songs in 1969, I think he & Macca & Harrison for that matter, wrote great songs that year. As they did every year imo.

Lennon, McCartney & Harrison are arguably the greatest trio of songwriters to have ever been in the same band. To be so dismissive of Lennon's 69 songs is totally misguided in my view.

Other years might be better & both Lennon & McCartney did indeed record some fragments of songs on Abbey Road. Lennon also wasn't close to having his songs finished & ready for the Get back/Let it Be album. But they're still arguably the greatest pop-rock writers that ever lived. So to just wave away Lennon's final Beatle year as a writer is just silly imo. As someone noted a few posts back. He still wrote #1 hits in the Beatles that year !

 

Paul was too damn controlling, wanting to be the boss, and Yoko was an interloper in regards to the Beatles.

 

Wrong.

 

They said no to Revolution as an a-side.

 

They all became spoiled brats and cry babies. Who quit first is immaterial as they all mentally disconnected together.