Where to go next - upgrading from a Rega P3-24?

Hi all,

I've had my Rega P3-24 (with Groovetracer sub-platter, platter and counterweight upgrades, Rega Exact cart) for a few years now and I am considering upgrading the table. I would like to move into trying out some MC and higher end carts, and have gotten advice from multiple sources that these kind of carts will have better synergy with a better quality table. I'd put my budget max at around $2,000, and will likely be searching second-hand.

I'm running through a PrimaLuna Prologue 3 pre-amp and a McIntosh MC2505 amp. I'd be interested to know what tables those of you here would recommend pairing with my current equipment.

Thanks,
Mike

 

While I don't have a recommendation for you, I have been thinking of moving upfront my p3 as well.

If nit sunk the money in mods that you have, mine is still all stock.... my thinking is , why put the money in the mods when I know I will be looking for another table in another year or so. In hindsight, do you regret putting the money in mods now that you are considering a new table?

 

If it was my money, I think I'd be looking at the Clearaudio Concept deck and a good cartridge.

 

If you like the Rega move up to the RP8 price wise it's a bit more but might find a demo or trade...

 

I bought it second hand with all the mods already made to it, at a very good price, so I didn't actually pay more than a new RP3 with the cart would have cost. It was a no-brainer, and I think the mods certainly improved stock quality to equate it with the RP6.

I do like the Rega sound, but I think that is also the synergy with the Rega cart. At this point I'm more interested in seeing what other options there are outside of what I already know.

 

At $2,000 on the used market I'd look at VPI. Maybe a Classic.

Maybe I should practice what I preach, though. I moved up from a Rega P5 to a P9.

 

I moved from a P3-24 with Dynavector 10x5 to a P9 with a Dyna XX2mk2. In hindsight, I should have kept the P3-24 and maybe spent $2K+ on a nice tube phono stage.

 

That last cartridge I used on my P5 was a low output wood Benz. List price on the cartridge was about the same as the turntable. Maybe I could have gotten more from that cartridge with another turntable but it was a very nice combination. I'd like to hear the Ortofon Quinet Blue on a P3 or RP3.

 

I concur with Bob, a VPI Classic is a thought however a used P9 would be real sweet and my choice...

 

Used Linn LP12 Sondek

 

another deck to check out is the PolyTable from the legendary George Merrill. One of the members on this forum bought one not long ago. It's in your price range and George Merrill knows analog...check it out

 

It's no secret that I'm a Rega fan but, at that price point - particularly if you are considering a sensible used buy, I would be looking at the Michell Gyrodec (though I don't know about their availability or used prices in the US..). I owned one before I made a 'lifestyle choice' and significantly altered my priorities but they are truly amazing and a thing of utter beauty.

I would look at either a new Gyro SE with something like a Dynavector MC or a used 'full' Gyrodec. I would also at least consider utilising the Rega arm from the P3-24 on the Gyro (it is absolutely good enough) and then selling the Rega without its arm. This might help you with your budget.

I ran a full Gyrodec with an Origin Live re-wired Rega 300 (It was an older type arm and I thought the stock wiring needed replacing - I wouldn't bother with the OL re-wire if I were to do it again now with a more recent example of the arm...), a Dynavector DV20LX cart, the Michell QC power supply (an upgrade from the stock power supply - it helps but isn't 'essential') and into a Trichord (Michell) 'Dino' phono stage. - This was, and remains, the best TT I've ever heard. I envy your ability to perhaps achieve something similar..!

 

From one HiFi cat to another, I feel you're looking in the right place to upgrade, source first.

And you have a great kit that you're enjoying, so why not put more detailed information to it, and explore a deeper listening experience?

Your going to need the utility of a higher output phono-stage that you can grow with if you eventually wish to dabble in anything but a few high-output moving coils (which to some point IMHO, high-out puts defeat the benefit of going from MM carts in the first place) and you should gain a higher resolution and silence to boot as you step up. So why not think ahead, drop roughly a quarter of your treasure on a Jolida 9a (which by the way can be modded (to infinity) with cheap OP amps to suit your tastes, power supply (12ax7) tubes, and upgraded power supply caps etc. while staying very nicely cost competitive). All of these mods have been highly publicized and employed by many, many audiophiles with excellent results. Then consider something like a (highly reviewed and awarded) Lyra Delos. Along the way you may consider an isolation platform for each of your components, starting with the source (your TT) and consider a better phono-cable. These final items will bring you sound less smeared, more bass defined, and more detailed, with a blacker background for cheap...

http://www.needledoctor.com/Lyra-Delos-Phono-Cartridge
http://www.needledoctor.com/Jolida-JD9-MK-II-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35458

Happy Listening!

 

that's interesting. you found the jump from phono stage to phono stage greater than the jump from the P3 > P9?

 

Well, I don't have a ton of experience with phono stages. But I did have the above-mentioned P3-24 for a few years and wanted "more". I invested in a P9, and initially a 17D3. That combo didn't work for me, in many ways it was worse than the P3-24 + 10x5. When I swapped out the 17D3 for a XX2MKII, things improved, but it didn't sound $5K better than my P3-24 + 10x5 combo.

The whole time I was (and still do) running a PS Audio GCPH phono stage. While it sounds neutral to me, and has great features/connections, sometimes I wish for a bit more sparkle/bloom that a more tweaky phono stage could probably deliver.

Don't get me wrong, LPs do sound nice with my current set-up. But considering my current analog rig cost $8K ('table, cart, phono stage), I would say it's not the best bang-for-the-buck I've gotten from my audio purchases.

 

At $2,000 on the used market, you will get a better table, but how much better. I'm wondering if you should keep the P3-24 until you can increase your budget a little more, which would open up more options for you to look at. For instance, a Well Tempered Amadeus would be an incredible upgrade, but I just don't think you'll get one for $2,000.

 

interesting, thanks for the reply.

 

That's why I recommended what I did... Mike would have the ability to stay pretty much, within his budget, and max out what he already has. This strategy includes the open-end that if he where to replenish his piggy bank and feel the urge to purchase a higher-end arm/table, he would still have a very competent phono-stage, and perhaps still have wear-and-tear left in the cart, or at least have the core value to jump into the next cart.

Going with a higher-end table now will exhaust his funds and only offer a modest initial sound improvement in a reinforcement capacity, all-be-it one he could also grow into, but initially, it may be just less satisfying, less bang for the bucks...

 

Might look at Sota's used stock. You could get into a table with suspension at that price.

 

MC cart with a matched SUT and a tubed phono stage will probably deliver more bang-for-the-buck than a new TT will IME.

 

I used to have the rega p3 24 ....I ended up moving back to suspended tables old school AR and prefer that sound as it's more classic vinyl sound and more open with better dynamics. I had two regas and I just felt the mdf table design was not quite for me. It is a nice solid sound though. for 2k though you can get so many great tables. I just don't see how you need to spend even half that though to find a table you may like better than the rega since it's probably just a case of that sound not being for you, as it was the case for me. Once you find the table design you like, you can find good stuff used for less $

 

Certainly. To qualify, I don't dislike the Rega sound that I've bought into with both the table and the cart. I like the musicality that you often hear described with it - it's a very well rounded sound and I never feel like I'm missing out on highs or lows. There's always a good balance, and a decent two-dimensional depth within the soundstage. The Exact is quite revealing, but with that comes a fair bit of surface noise; one of the biggest reasons I'm interested in checking out some MC carts is the touted lower noise floor. I'm also hoping that an upgrade would bring out more clarity and three-dimensionality in what I'm hearing.

I know I'm limiting myself, but I'm pretty wedded to my pre-amp as it is, which is why I'm looking to see what I can do with the table first. After having something with a good deal of tube options, I'm not sure I could move to something that only has two 12AX7s. The table was originally bundled with a Pro-Ject Tube Box II, and truthfully, I couldn't tell the difference between that and the direct phono input on my then Luxman amp. I know it's not at the same level as the Jolida, but I'd be skeptical moving away from the tube sound I've now come to love. I've heard great things about the Lyra, but that's out of my range for the time being. I was initially thinking along the lines of a Dynavecyor 10x5 to start out and see what a HOMC could do for me.

 

Your first post made it sound you were being told MC cartridges would outclass the P3-24. I thought that meant we were talking about really getting up into the better low-output models. The Rega and the 10x5 are widely considered to be a nice combination.

 

Well, I'm more limited by my pre-amp than the table when it comes to using LOMC, but I've generally been told that even going for any number of HOMC might not be worth it with the table I have. I do think the quality of the plinth and arm could be significantly upgraded looking elsewhere, so figured it was time to look into that before I get too sucked in to cart research.

I know my budget isn't leaving a ton of room for improvement, but I'm curious to see what my other options are.

 

I consider the Gyro to be an excellent choice as a step up from the P3, given that you basically like the P3. The heavier weight tables like VPI sound very different from Rega, so you'd need to audition them to determine if you like their presentation. If you're buying blind though - I'd be surprised if you didn't like a Gyro or similar table.

As to the cart - its synergy is more of an issue relative to tonearms and phono stages than turntables. Given that any table you'd buy in the price range you're investingating is likely to have the same (or very similar) tonearm to the P3, I wouldn't expect there to be a notable difference in cartridge compatibility between the table you have now and the table you plan to buy.