Where's the HDCD?

There was an item in the ICE newsletter "Watchdog" section a couple of issues back about the Lyle Lovett "Cowboy Man" anthology, stating that although the packaging had the HDCD logo, that the CD was not an HDCD-encoded CD. I have come across two other CD's recently that have the HDCD logo on the packaging (by Newsboys and Martin Sexton), but they do not "light up" the green HDCD light on my HDCD player- so they are obviously not HDCD-encoded.

This may have been explained before, but is the HDCD encoding something like a coat of gloss that can be forgotten to be applied at the last minute, so that even though the packinging indicates HDCD mastering /remastering, it's not? Wouldn't the "process" need to be on-going every step of the way on remasters (Doors, Joni Mitchell) that use it. Some CD's sure don't sound like they derive any benefit when the green light comes in, so would that mean its (HDCD) is just slapped on there for the heck of it, just to have a logo on there? Country artists seem to favor this technology the most- and country CD's are usually very nice sounding and all, but then that's the type of recording it is. So, basically, maybe I'm asking- what is your take on HDCD now? Just hype? A "nothing" technology? I was pretty impressed with my player to begin with, but I'm not hearing any difference these days. The Doors HDCD remasters may have been just as impressive without benefit of HDCD.

nashreed

 

The Doors Box Set was not marked anywhere with the HDCD logo or info. Yet, The Discs were HDCD encoded!

 

Re: Re: Where's the HDCD?

>>>OY VAY!!!!

 

Re: Re: Re: Where's the HDCD?

Or What?

 

And does this have anything better to offer than Steve's Doors releases?

I seriously doubt it!

 

I'm curious about this as well. I thought HDCD was an attempt to bring a higher resolution medium to cd that was backwards compatible with current players. As always, HDCD won't make a bad recording sound good but I thought it could make a good recording sound better. I would love to hear what Steve thinks. Is it bogus or does it in fact add more bits of information which translates to better resolution.

 

HDCD works, but as noted above, it still boils down to how good a job the engineer did.

http://www.hdcd.com/about/index.html

 

Gary,

This sounds like manufacturer's marketing promotalk. My experience is that other mastering approaches can be as good or better than HDCD. Playing HDCD discs on a non-HDCD player DOES compromise the sound. Other systems (SBM, Apogee etc)
can be played on any system without requiring a special circuit to maximize the soiund quality.

For example, the Emmylou Harris Cd Wrecking Ball (HDCD) sounds much better in HDCD. Without an HDCD decoder the Daniel Lanois mix sounds jumbled and vague.
I noticed a big improvement in clarity and focus when played back through an HDCD decoder. Note however that I find that HDCD improves the sound only in comparison to the same disc on a non-HDCd machine.

 

Gary,

I'm not sure I know how to answer that question regarding HDCD in the DVD-A realm. Perhaps they have introduced new algorithms to accommodate the additional bit rate. It could be too that they are working on new chips.

As Steve Hoffman has noted above, the end product is hit or miss, depending on how the engineer approached the original master (and this is, of course, true in SACD too - the Byrds SACD available from Sony is a prime example where "less is more." but I hasten to add that the Byrds redbook CD is not HDCD encoded).

There are a small number of quality HDCD recordings that do show the listener what the format is capable of delivering, and when you do A-B comparisons of these disks on two machines with and without the HDCD capability, you can hear the differences. Sometimes they are quite obvious, others they aren't.

The best sounding pop HDCD I've heard so far is the Dire Straits Hits collection that was released about four years ago. On this one there is an appreciable increase in image size and depth, as well as a minor increase in dynamic range. Unfortunately for an avid Knopfler fan as I am, this hits collection simply blows away the domestic CDs in both their original and remastered versions, and that is a shame since it simply does not enough of the better material from the first five studio albums. In fact, here are some of my comments on this album from a published source:

(I have since then, though.)

I would have to say too, that since this was written, I've compared this HDCD to that XRCD of Brothers In Arms, and, IMHO, the XRCD is the worst of the bunch (and don't get me started on that XRCD of Hell Freezes Over), so this one ranks as one of the best POP examples that I've heard using the HDCD format. Also avoid the Joni Mitchell HDCDs.

Of course, the best examples of HDCD's potential come from Reference Recordings, but these are so good, that they decimate conventional CDs in any player whether it has the HDCD chip or not.

Frankly, I predict the demise of HDCD some time in the not-too-distant future. There really is no need for the format considering the arrival of the Hi-Rez formats (particularly SACD). There simply aren't enough companies incorporating the chip into their players to make HDCD noteworthy to the consumers at large.

 

Neil Young abandoned HDCD in favor of DVD-A. To get Neil's take on the advancement of digital technologies, check out this great interview with him:

http://www.angelfire.com/rock2/traces/pages/cdInterview.html

The fact that Microsoft has purchased HDCD makes me think that it will not go away. Personally, I think most HDCD titles sound great. The fact that it is a 100% backwards compatible format is a major plus from a production standpoint. I don't think the new hi-rez formats will supplant regular ol' redbook any time soon, so artists and record companies really don't have anything to lose by offering their product in HDCD format.

I've read various explanations of how HDCD works, and it all seems a bit confusing. I apologize if I'm propagating misinformation here, but my understanding is that during the mastering process, the HDCD "encoder" selects one of eight algorithms that optimize audio digitization based on the frequency characteristics of the audio itself. It does something like allocating more bits to certain frequencies and fewer bits to frequencies that are minimal or not present in the audio. In a normal mastering situation, the 16 bits are spread evenly across the entire 20 Hz to 20 kHz spectrum.

For example, if you have a track with a female solo vocalist, the HDCD encoder selects an algorithm that will optimize resolution in that situation. The algorithm employed is encoded along with the track. The HDCD decoder then reads what algorithm was used to encode the track and uses the corresponding algorithm (in the HDCD D/A chip) to decode the track.

If anyone else can confirm or correct my understanding here, I will certainly welcome it! Regardless, I feel that HDCD is an excellent format that offers a bit more detail and resolution on playback. I don't feel this is "colored" at all, simply a bit more revealing. It's not a stunning improvement, but satisfying nonetheless. For those of you who may experience fatigue when listening to most redbook CD’s, you might find that HDCD’s played back through an HDCD player are not fatiguing at all. This has been my experience and is the primary reason why I enjoy the HDCD format.

 

Re: Re: Where's the HDCD?

neither was costello/bacharach's "painted from memory" or XTC's "wasp star! but there it is...

last night, i attached colored dots to the spines of HDCD encoded discs in my collection. slightly manic, i know, but its the only way i can tell at a glance.

if you punch "HDCD" into tower records search engin, you get a much better idea of whats out there then, say, logging onto HDCD's website.

later, chris

 

Re: Re: Re: Where's the HDCD?

Or the Brubeck Time Out remaster CD.

There is a complete listing of HDCDs available on their web site, with links to the stores where you can order them:

http://www.hdcd.com/music_catalog/welcome.asp

 

I agree with your comments on the sound quality issue, vex. The problem is that there are fewer companies offering players with the HDCD option this year than there were just a few years back (when I bought the Rotel 971). Perhaps this is because Pacific Microsonics is now a Microsoft company. With the exception of that cheapo Apex player, there isn't another that incorporates ALL of the various formats, including HDCD. Whether or not this is good or bad, I keep three players in my system, as I have found that some CDs sound better to me in one player, and others in another. Without question, though, the HDCDs always sound their best in my 971, there's no denying that.

 

My Roxy Music, Doors and Tom Petty HDCD's sound fantastic on my system. I don't have a HDCD player (Sony CDP XE-570..The new vinyl sounding MF A3 II on my shopping list ). I would rank these remasters as some of my better sounding CD's, especially the Roxy Music's . The Tom Petty one's can be a hair too sharp at high volumes.

 

I have a number of HDCD discs, although I don't have a HDCD-enabled CD player. I think in every case, the HDCD disc is a significant improvement over the earlier standard CD, at least on my humble CD player. I'm thinking in particular of the Joni Mitchell and Roxy Music ones. They do sound a bit brighter than the older versions, but I would say that they are generally easier on the ears than a good number of the Sony SBM 20-bit titles from recent years.

I also picked up a couple of old jazz-rock reissues from Japan which have been released as HDCDs: Don Cherry's "Hear and Now" and Jaco Pastorius' "Twins" - they are both excellent sounding reissues. That Pastorius 2 disc set is amazing, and has all the tracks that were on the single disc issue of "Invitation". The HDCD tracks sound much better than the older single CD versions.

 

Hmmm., I thought the individual Door CDs were HDCD encoded? Do you have any of them? Maybe they're also unmarked yet HCDC encoded like the Box-set?

 

Hi Dave,
I didn't do a A/B check on them. (Don't have access to them at the moment). Still, I believe "Hello I Love You" on the DCC CD is ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS! I can't imagine anything sounding better! Killer!

 

Except, it's *not* 20-bit plahback. It never is, from a CD player, HDCD decoder or not. HDCD is one of several kinds of *bitmapping* , i.e., information manipulation that 'maps' >16 bits onto 16 bit playback.

For us at home it's not easy to directly compare HDCD to non-HDCD, because you'd have to have the exact same mastering with only the HDCD encoding added to the master. And even then, I've read that HDCD-equipped players automatically either raise the level of HDCDs slightly or lower those of non-HDCDs (I can never remember which), which means you have to do level matching too. Personally, I suspect taht as with DVD-A, SACD, etc, any difference heard is really down to differences in the care and artistry in the mastering, not the bitrates or bitmapping.

 

Snowman, have you heard the 3 MFSL's of Tom Petty?

I can honestly tell you that there is no better versions, at least that I've heard, of TP: Damn The Torpedo's UD1, Hard Promises (if you have the UD1 you are a lucky person, but the UD2 is good too), Full Moon Fever is absolutely incredible!

No ear bleeders here.

 

Hi Dave,
I don't have the MFSL's of Damn the Torpedoes or Hard Promises, but have the UD2 of Full Moon Fever, which sounds very good to me...much better than the original.
I did consider the forementioned two on MFSL...many going on Ebay, but only the UD2's, which made me less sure.
I guess I will keep on the lookout, be lucky, and win/see one at a low price.
Thanks for the advice,
Danny.

 

Hey snowman!

It is very possible to obtain the UD1 of Damn The Torpedos on ebay. In my 2 year serious search, I have never seen a UD1 Hard Promises yet, but the UD2 is still worth it and still makes the regular release look like dogmeat.

Isn't Full Moon Fever quite impressive! It's one of my favourite MFSL's.