Who is the most overrated figure in Jazz?

What Jazz musician have you seeked out, because of an enormous amount of hype, only to be left flat?

For me, it's always been John Coltrane. Although he contributes on many of my favorite Jazz Lps, I've never been able to handle him as a frontman.

 

Why should we care if Coltrane picked his nose on stage? What of it? You'll never see Britney pick hers on stage. Does this speak in any way to her musicianship?

That said, if you haven't already picked up A Love Supreme, then do it right away. The recording itself has a host of problems, but the performance is another matter entirely. There is no finer jazz album IMHO.

Since we're on Steve's great board here, I may as well give the nod to his mastering of Lush Life as well (LP or CD, equally great). The title track is the only track I consider essential on this set. But it is such a killer! Do yourself a favor and check out musicforasong.com. I think they have the CD cutout for cheaps. Buy one now and thank me later (or thank Steve)

 

My take is that the tenor sax is the most overrated instument in jazz. I prefer trumpet and relations and clarinet and relations. It's a weird world of perception. I like Miles best in modern jazz, consider MAURICE ANDRE the Hendrix of Trumpet, Love Gene Sedric, Benny Goodman. A former partner of mine dumped me for a guy who turned her on to Charlie Paker, but my ears still don't get it!

 

Coltrane, eh? That's interesting...

 

Yeah, that Scissor Lips could sure fling snot! When the gain was up high on those CDs of yours, I bet you could hear the splat just about center in the soundstage! Just like being there, without the sticky mess.

 

Hey, I'm a member again (2nd time!). Can I be grandfathered now, in case the threshold pushes ever higher?

 

Settle down there Mike. I wasn't implying that I think Coltrane is overrated because of that. I've always thought that was a funny story because I don't know anyone else that has ever seen him live.

A Love Supreme was the album that I went out and bought and, subsequently, decided that I thought he was overrated. It did nothing for me. I've heard it described as a spiritual album but I couldn't listen to it.

Just my opinion. I didn't want to start a bunch of arguments, I simply wanted to know if anyone else felt that there were certain Jazz musicians that were over hyped.

 

I'm settled. No harm, no foul, right? Anyhow, take my advice still and get your hands on Lush Life. I could be wrong, but I think you'll enjoy it. Good stuff (big understatement!).

 

My vote goes for Kenny G. This is because when iI mention jazz to any aquaintance, they mention his name only because they know little or nothing about music. But in reality he is not a jazz musician, Joe average public he is a jazz musician. In my mind so what if he can circular breathe and play a singe long tone for 45 minutes live on stage. That is not Jazz, nor is it music.Sorry. I'll stop now as it seems I am bashing pretty hard.

 

I really can't get into Gerry Mulligan. I have the Pleyel Concert and Mulligan and Monk. I wonder if it is that I am not used to the Baratone Sax.

 

Yes, I like Lush Life. I also like Blue Trane, Bags & Trane, his pairing with Monk and, of course, his contributions to the Davis Quintet. I still maintain, however, that he is given too much credit. His "sheets of sound" just never did it for me.

 

I like a lot of Miles Davis but to hear some people talk about him you might get the impression that he's god. I guess if you are only going to have one trumpeter in your collection Miles isn't a bad choice.

 

I recall seeing/hearing Dexter Gordon at our local jazz club, Gilly's. After each song he would hold the sax out in front of him, horizontally, and allow the sax to take a bow. Great music and even Dexter knew that sax was magical!

 

Jazz historians tell us that was the time when Coltrane had a severe problem with drugs (which he later solved through prayer and meditation). That may account for his rather unconventional behaviour on stage.

 

Oh my God, guys. Will you drop it? I was just passing along a quick story that I grew up hearing from my father who saw most of my jazz idols in person.

That's one of the few things he ever said about Trane.

Is everyone looking for an argument tonight?

I'm sorry I brought it up!

 

Kenny G sucks

I second that. Others which are way overrated IMO are Diana Krall, Ornette Coleman, and Keith Jarrett (in no particular order). Underrated Jazz Musicians are...but that should be the next thread!

Arne

 

Hey jligon...

I don't think anybody's looking for an argument, but you seem pretty touchy tonight, Jon. I know that I posted a very silly post in the hopes of getting you to lighten up and laugh, but I suspect I only annoyed you because I was off topic. My apologies.

Because I don't feel I know enough to comment about who some people consider overrrated this is a learning experience. What's your opinion of Miles and Charlie Parker?

Peace

 

Re: Hey Claude...

I believe this topic was the first post that I've made in the last few days so I'm not sure where you're coming up this this "touchy" claim? Perhaps I appeared that way after 6 or so somewhat sarcastic replies.

I was the one originally making the joke (Coltrane's nose-which I've since deleted) and a few of you felt compelled to make condescending remarks (as though I base my musical preferences on an individual's hygene).

I thought I could have passed along a story like that without either getting a number of you bent out of shape or inducing others to judge me on it. Apparently the topic itself may have been a bad idea.

It's just too bad because now I'm never gonna tell you about the time my Dad saw Bob from Sesame Street completely bombed in Vegas!

BTW: my name is Jon (and I like Miles Davis)

 

Miles Davis.

 

MD may be overrated as a trumpet player, but not as a leader, IMO.

 

Re: Kenny G sucks

Kenny G is from hell, but I don't think Diana Krall, Ornette Coleman, and especially Keith Jarrett deserve to be put in the same category.

G's a hack, total hack. An annoying show off and marketing monster. Glorified elevator music, but worse because he won't shut the hell up! He just keeps going and going, on and on. Then the next song and it's the same damn thing, on and on he goes...

The others at least have musical integrity. Well, maybe not Krall, but the others do .

I'm actually a big fan of Jarrett, he's brilliant indeed.
Dan C

 

Probably I'm not getting it. When listening to his "Köln Concert", I don't know where he's going. When does one tune stop, where does another begin? I often find myself humming along with some music (can be Bruckner or Brubeck), but that's impossible with this kind of piano playing. My father used to be a fan of KJ though, I think he actually attended the "Köln Concert." I've rarely talked with him about music; think I'm gonna ask him about KJ this weekend.

Diana Krall: Sounds like Sammy Davis, jr. impersonating Julie London.

 

Watch this, I'm going to stay on topic!

John Scofield.

OK, I admit I don't know his music that well, but I did see him live, and he did nothing for me. I don't like his tone, use of effects, or style.

A couple of highly-regarded individual records that I never could "get":

Lifetime - Emergency!

Weather Report - I Sing the Body Electric

Which is not to say I don't like those bands in general.

jligon, I'm not going to ram Coltrane down your throat, but I'll say this -- it took years for "Giant Steps" to grow on me. The first few times I played it, it didn't do much for me. An album like "My Favorite Things" has a lot more immediate appeal.

 

I also have trouble "getting into" most of Coltrane's music on the first listen. I've got about a half dozen of his albums at this point, and I can say that so far only the two Patrick mentions here and some of Soultrane (on Steve's DCC CD) have sunk their hooks into me. And even they took a few listens ...

Every few months I put on A Love Supreme to see if the magic's finally going to hit me. Hasn't happened yet, but I'm not giving up yet ...