Why did Ultravox change musical directions?

For a punk or post-punk band the transition from Ha!Ha!Ha! to Systems of Romance is pretty jarring. By contrast, it seems that most punk/new wave bands (well, bands in general) had a "sound," then largely stuck with it: Cars, Police, Pretenders, Ramones. Even with Blondie, it seemed their sound was a try-anything approach, rather than a sharp move from one distinct style to another.

 

They wanted success and they got it with Midge Ure

 

This is pre-dating the Foxx to Ure transition though. Ha Ha Ha and Systems of Romance are both Foxx lead Ultravox albums, SoR is a more polished affair and a greater emphasis on an 'electronic sound', there are still some great biting guitar sounds, on the whole although different to its predecessor it's a very satisfying album. If you look at from the point of view of John Foxx then his sound was a continuation of this when he went solo, i.e. the synthesiser element took over completely on Metamatic. so from Ultravox to Metamatic it seems like a natural progression to me.

 

always wondered who was first with inclusion of synthies: joy division or ultravox ? in fact it was bowie...

 

I think that in reference to this era of Ultravox, that Brian Eno/Roxy Music was a greater influence than Bowie.

 

Separate discussion but you're wrong, loads before Bowie.

 

but roxy never had the "kraftwerk"-like synthie-lines that bowie had on "low"...
i know that many bands had synths before, but the line for this "industrial"-sounding synthies goes for me kraftwerk -> bowie -> ...

 

No, Bowie got it from Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, Eno and others. There had also been Jean-Michel Jarre, who gained a lot of success. Synths had been around for ages (The Beatles, Pete Townshend, Keith Emerson, Rick Wakeman,...).
As for Ultravox, the early work was really all about Jon Foxx. Joy Division came along and defined what a lot of post-punk was all about and very soon, we had Ultravox, Simple Minds and U2 all adopting their tone. The influence of Bowie was enormous of course, not only in the music but also the image, the stance Midge Ure (who was a totally different style of artist to Foxx), adopted Bowie's mannerisms (just like Gary Newman did). I thought they looked pathetic and their music likewise. Also, by the early 80s, synth-drums, stark pristine production and romanticism were the new thing, so the punk-era Foxx sound was already old-hat (though I prefered it!).

 

Lots of examples of punk and new wave acts that evolved considerably: The Damned, Elvis Costello, The Stranglers, The Cure, Joe Jackson, XTC...

 

I don't agree with the premise of the OP that most "punk/new wave" bands stuck to the same sound. Lots of punk/post punk bands from this era went through some pretty huge stylistic transitions or evolutions, often from one album to the next, like these:

Wire: Pink Flag to Chairs Missing
The Cure: Three Imaginary Boys to Seventeen Seconds
Siouxsie and the Banshees: Join Hands to Kaleidoscope
Japan: Obscure Alternatives to Quiet Life
XTC: Go2 to Drums and Wires

There are more examples, but Ultravox's evolution doesn't seem atypical to me at all.

(For the record, I think Systems of Romance is Ultravox's best album.)

 

3/4 of the New Romantic acts took their image directly from Bryan Ferry.

 

I actually don't think the shift from "Ha! Ha! Ha!" to "Systems Of Romance" is that drastic. Let's not forget that in Billie Currie and John Foxx Ultravox! had two members very interested in electronica. If you listen to these albums in a row "Vienna" makes as much sense as "Metamatic" (which I definitely prefer)

The real break for me is "Quartett" with its measured George Martin production. George Martin. Man, I'm still amazed that they pulled that off.


To answer the question: I guess first it was a natural progession. Then the band wanted to make some money. And who can blame them? It was the 80s after all.

 

.... and straight from the sleeve of "Young Americans"

 

I've no doubt that Bowie was an influence, but there are a few songs off of Ha Ha Ha that sound like Bryan Ferry to me and songs like The Quiet Men scream Eno.

 

the producer of the album was conny plank who had more connections to kraftwerk and cluster then to eno, but i agree eno and tangerine dream were also influences... that the early songs were heavily influenced by roxy is also evident...

 

This is going to sound completely stupid, but I've yet to forgive Ultravox! (the exclamation point was part of the band name for the first two albums) for allowing John Foxx to leave. Seriously.

Still, to examine the question - you really should expand it a bit. Rather than looking at Ha Ha Ha and Systems, include their debut. If you do that, it's clear that - if any - it's Ha Ha Ha that is the anomaly. I have to say, I have an abiding love for these three albums. They're all quite different though. The debut is raw, with touches of Roxy Music - perhaps not surprising since Eno was producing. The second is Punk angst, while their third was refined and regal.

Why are they different? Well, I think it's mainly due to the band simply evolving. These were young men, playing at a time when popular music, and culture, was churning itself up. If you listen to the debut album, you can hear their equipment is pretty basic stuff. By the time of the second album they've clearly spent some money on better gear, and by the third they're fully-fledged big time.

I really can't talk about the Midge Ure era. They were dead to me by then. Midge Ure was known in the UK before he ever joined Ultravox, because his previous teeny-pop band had been fixtures in the charts. Seeing him go to Ultravox was to bring a definite close to proceedings to me. Of course, they were far more successful once Foxx had left, which says it all, really.

Mind you - the journey wasn't quite over. Foxx released two astonishingly great albums post Ultravox - Metamatic, and The Garden, the latter is a great companion to Systems of Romance. Sadly after that even he got lost. Mysterious Ways was the final nail in the coffin for me, while there are a couple of good tracks, he's clearly trying to do pop music, watering down his lyrics, simplifying the music - it ain't good.

The Midge Ure era had one monster of a song - Vienna - and arguably a good album to accompany it, but after that it's pretty rank stuff, imo.

I won't ever be without those first three albums though. Bought them all on Vinyl, bought them on CD, bought the reissues. I still listen to them today. Those three albums show a real morphing of a band into something very very special.

 

Gotta love "Vienna". What an epic song. The change that adding Midge Ure led to was at least a good one.

 

Thanks for answering my question- that's actually a good possibility. I guess I was wondering whether "Hiroshima" had a massive impact at concerts or something, even though it didn't get any radio play, and that pushed the Foxx era into this new direction.

 

Haha.... I tried to keep my post neutral concerning evaluation of the Ure era but you pretty much nailed it. "Vienna" is a good album. A bit pompous but ok. "Rage In Eden" is flawed but at least the band kept trying. Oh....and the Peter Saville design is a stone cold classic.

After that they lost me. By "U-Vox" they started to look your ideal sons in law. At least Duran looked glamorous but Ure looked like he was about to turn on the telly.

All in.... well maybe not one day but one decade.

 

I'd say "The Thin Wall" from the next album (Rage in Eden) is genius, and could have fit right on Systems of Romance.

 

Ultravox > Gary Numan > Human League...

Gary Numan worshipped Foxx era Ultravox - Systems was his blue print (also Low/Heroes era Bowie)

Vienna would be the best Ultravox album

Sometimes indirectly...Roxy > Japan > Duran Duran

 

Also, the seeds for what would blossom on Systems were already planted on Ha! Ha! Ha!, with artsier, futuristic, synth-heavy songs that were steeped in atmosphere, like "The Man Who Dies Every Day" and "Hiroshima Mon Amour," and in arrangements of songs like "While I'm Still Alive" and others. In a way, Ha! Ha! Ha! has a bit of a dual personality: it is at times punkier than their debut, and other times artsy and forward-thinking like Systems.

 

I more or less agree - I think Vienna is a really good album, but they pretty much lost me as well after that by getting a little too bland and commercial for my tastes. I like a couple post-Vienna tracks, but most if it isn't very memorable. Even though Midge Ure Ultravox is in some ways a different vehicle from Foxx-era Ultravox, I can still see Vienna as a logical progression from Systems of Romance.

 

No different to what happened to Tubeway army, or Japan really. They all started off under that "punk/new wave" ethos and then evolved into more sophisticated forms of music.

 

For me the link is Billie Currie, the synth sound he premiered on - I guess - "Systems Of Romance" is a huge element in Ure-Vox.

Hate that word but he's actually a bit of an under appreciated keyboarder. Might have to do with the fact that he's mainly associated with chart fodder like "Hymn". I've got no idea really.