Why do 78rpm Records sound so Bad?

There's a little part of me that wishes this April Fool's gag had actually happened: Ultimate Tone Records (UTR): Advancing into the past with amazing new 78 rpm audiophile vinyl pressings!

 

If you were mastering "hot singles" for a modern comp, would you aim for that compressed sound? Or let the tape go uncompressed like you tend to? You've mentioned liking that hot analog compressed sound on singles before. Just curious, thanks.

 

Bill Inglot (or was it Ken Perry?) did a pretty nice job on the '80s Rhino Greatest Hits CD.

 

With the correct equipment they can sound great-maybe even the preferred way to listen to mono.
Crank 78 players will give you "guns"....

 

I have often read that Sun 45s were cut with the same head that cut the 78s...so to get the best sound out of them you need to play them with wide groove needles. Has anyone verified if that is the case or not? If true, this would easily explain why people think they are awful, because I'm betting most people are playing them with microgroove needles.

I own quite a few Sun 78s, but none of the 45s. For the most part, the 78s all sound great.

 

Yeah I ran into this listening to this guys Ray Charles 78s, and this mix slays on 78.

 

Best version ever

 

i would guess that most of the 78's that are still around got played with a stylus that was about as thick as a bread knife and twice as heavy. probably has a lot to do with why they sound the way they do.

 

Absolutely. I have all of my mom's 78s here at my house and in a month or two I'll be transferring them to CD for her. Most of them are in just "fair" condition, but she wants me to do them anyway. A few sound mighty nice, though. There are several Frank Sinatra records and a couple of Burl Ives that are fairly unscathed. I also have
a Victor "batwing" label of Pietro Diero "Italian Favorites" (#17643) which dates to 1914, so it is 100 years old! It is listenable, but in what I'd consider poor condition because of it's very noisy surface (no skips, though). It's interesting to listen to a recording that old; just think, that record pre-dates electronic recording. I just looked online and there is actually a copy of that for sale on eBay for $21, I never thought I'd see that. I wonder how many they pressed?

 

I don't know how correct this is - I read that *some* of the Sun 45's should be played with a stylus size used for *some* transcription discs years ago - one that's under 2.0 mil. Not a 1 mil early mono LP size one though, and not one typically used for a 78.

 

Here's the B-Side, from my YouTube channel!



The clip of Blue Suede Shoes from Chris Vangel's YouTube channel is really nice, but I believe he does a little digital audio cleanup on his music files before he uploads. Mine is just a raw upload with music straight from the phono preamp into the camera...so it will be a little noisier.

If you want to check out the rest of my 78 needledrop videos, my channel is here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC94zUvHY1KIGfyOvsWMTkWg/videos

I have a couple more Sun 78s currently uploaded (Johnny Cash).

 

wow you have a lot of great stuff on there!!

thx for posting

it does sound great


--->I've never actually played a 78 before...those things sure haul ass!

it's entertaining watching the stylus track it I wonder how fast you could spin a record before the stylus flew off

 

He definitely appears to have an E+ pressing there, but he is another YouTuber who digitally cleans up his audio files. He has demonstration videos showing how he does the cleanup. Some of his cleanup jobs sound pretty nice (like this Armstrong), but some leave audible artifacts that I personally find worse than surface noise. It comes down to personal preference, that's all.

 

I've always wondered why in the 1970's and 80's they took the 78rpm speed function off of turntables. It wasn't THAT long since they stopped producing 78s and it couldn't of just been cost cutting (for an extra speed?).

 

Wow, Looks like I got to go out and find some 78's in decent condition. I just assumed all 78's sounded bad to begin with. You forget your listening to a pressing that's at least 60 years old.

 

I've shared this before and I'll share it again. A post I made in my senior year of highschool... Some of the gear is a little cringeworthy looking back on it now but I think you'll find it served me well. Find a better sounding version if you can. Direct audio, no NR.

 

I dont think he does, Ill ask him, but he has other videos of 78s where the audio is not cleaned up and exceptionally noisy. Unlike the first video where that guy cleans up all his 78s. I hope he just got lucky and found clean 78s.

 

Well think about it, 45rpm started being used in the 50s, that format became widely popular. By the 70s, the audiophile turntable makers probably decided 78 was obsolete. I guess it was a niche market at the time. The cheaper turntables still carried 78s, but I supposed people moved on at the time. The 70s progressive rock was huge. I mean the guy from the youtube channel that I posted said that he can still go to record stores now and find clean Ray Charles 78s for $2.

 

As will many of those hillbilly/country 78s from around the same era. Most of us are used to hearing this stuff collected on budget line LPs or CD collections, but the 78s have a presence (as an earlier poster said) that is unbelievable. I have some 78s--I'm thinking of Louvin Brothers and Jimmy Bryant & Speedy West Capitols, York Brothers on King, Maddox Bros. & Rose on 4-Star--that would pass for audiophile quality.

 

How is the Audio-Technica on 78 duty? Sounds like it would be an OK second table for 78 duty.

 

In my opinion wide groove needle is essential for playing 78's. Reason being it can handle the roughness of a 78. I'm assuming because Shellac is rougher than Vinyl. Using a micro-groove needle on a 78 will make it wear down faster than ice cream on a hot day, the needle that is. I've seen a lot of cartidges that have 2 different kinds of needles. When you want to put on a 78 you just flip it to the other needle. Don't know if doing this necessarily improves the sound but 78's will damage micro-groove needles and in my opinion I would never play a 78 on a "normal" needle.

Heres the cartridge on one of my old turn-tables. The two options it gives me are "LP" and "T3MD 78"

 

I've heard that the 78 speed is unusable due to the manufacturing tolerances, the platter is noticeably unstable at that speed. Ymmv though

 

All depends on the quality of the machine. A crappy turntable can be unstable at 45rpm. Also if your turntable isn't placed on a level surface that can really affect it.

 

Sounds like the Technics SP-15 long term will be best for my needs.