Why do some vinyl albums have sibilance while others don't?

Very true. I have yet to hear any version (digital or analog) of Tony Bennett doing "I Left My Heart in San Francisco", that wasn't seriously sibilant. I think it has a lot to do with the heavy reverb on the vocals.

 

It's not your equipment if only some vinyl have sibilance while the majority doesn't. It might be better to give an example of a few titles where you hear sibilance and see if anyone else has the same problem with those specific titles.

 

I'll play....one LP track that gives me sibilance is the last track on side 4, Louder Than Words on Pink Floyd's The Endless River, . Anyone else have trouble with this one?

I have a VPI Scout SE with a Ortofon 2M Bronze. No matter how much I tinker with the tracking force, VTA, azimuth I can't get it to go away.

 

I have that album. I'll check it and get back to you tomorrow. Thanks for posting!

 

Now I have to google sibilance

 

It seems to me a cheaper cartridge, being less able to reproduce high frequencies accurately, might limit sibilance rather than be the source of it.
If there is a lot of sibilance on the album, the better the cartridge the more likely it will reproduce it.
Albums during rock always had varying brightness and warmth. Just like CDs of those albums do.

 

Okay, I had a few minutes to spare and here's my take:
There is sibilance! We can here it clearly during the chorus. The good thing is that it has nothing to do with your equipment. Unfortunately, I don't like you as much anymore now that you've drawn my attention to it. I've never noticed it before
Cheers, and Happy New Year!

 

Many people, and especially most younger people, can't afford to spend four figures or more for a high end turntable and cartridge. That alone should not prevent anyone from getting good reproduction from their record collections.

 

Worn-out stampers could be a reason. Years ago I repurchased an album when my original copy got damaged. The 2nd copy had sibilance on an inner track where the original copy had none.

 

and it really doesn't. my sibilant records are sibilant regardless of the TT/cart i'm using. some carts have reduced the effect somewhat, but it was the vinyl itself. usually worn out vintage vinyl, whether visible to the naked eye or not.

 

Its often the other way around. Cheap cartridges can create a hard sibilance where there is none. Sibilance isn't necessarily high frequencies. There are records with a lot of sibilance like The Who's A Quick One, UK Reaction label. The better the cartridge - the more it 'tames' it. Its still sibilant, but without that ear drum scraping sensation.

 

That's been my experience too. I've tried playing certain records on different tables with different carts, and they still sounded spitty.

 

Most of us do not enjoy "tinkering". What we love is the results produced as a result of tinkering. If you want your records to sound good you'll have to make the effort. It's likely not a pressing issue.

 

Correct. If the sibilance is due to the pressing or the mastering, it'll be there in varying degrees regardless of your equipment. The challenge is to determine if it's the record or not. Like the posts above regarding The Endless River, it was not due to the Turntable/cart. If you have sibilance with the odd record, and assuming that your tt is set up optimally, chances are that it's the record.

 

Same with Wu-Tang Forever: multiple copies I've come across all have sibilance distortion. The sibilance is pretty hot on the CD but it doesn't quite boil over into distortion.

See above.

Right, sibilance is most present roughly around 6-7 kHz, depending on the voice, of course.

 

That is my point. The better the cartridge, not only the better the ability to create the finer points of a production, also the weak points and flaws. Some recordings just have it.
Sibilance is normally high frequencies. Sibilance controls on microphone preamps are typically a type of high frequency cut.
I suspect most sibilance isn't created by the cartridge, but already present on the recording and simply not as pronounced on some gear.
Lets also not forget the phono preamp. They are a very important part in the chain of being able to magnify what the cartridge is putting out.
I would say that, in general, if the sibilance is only on vocals and not affecting the sound of cymbals, chances are it is in the recording and not the signal path. If it is in the signal path it would make sense that the cymbals would sound irritating as well.
And perhaps other higher frequency instruments like flutes and higher guitar notes.
6-7k is pretty high frequencies, the human voice is centered at around 1k. That would be the very upper part of midrange on a parametric mid EQ. Sibilance can happen all the way up from there.
Of course a bad stylus can cause all kinds of strange phenomenon...........

 

I'm not sure what you're saying here, but generally, the better the cartridge, the more the weak points and flaws recede or disappear. In other words, it pulls 'more' detail out of the grooves, and yet, attenuates or diminishes flaws (rather than accentuate them).

 

This isn't so.
Flaws in the recording, mixing , and mastering are often far more obvious the better the gear gets.
Phono cartridges cannot undo poor recording or mastering or rectify the problems. They can merely mask them, which logically I would think lower quality cartridges might inadvertently do.
A cartridge that has dips in its frequency response could very possibly mask sibilance if it has a response dip at the frequency or a frequency close to one of the frequencies of the sibilance, for example.
A cartridge with a dip at say, 10k, would more likely mask sibilance that is there because of being on the master than a cartridge with close to flat response.
Like I say, the more accurate the cartridge is, the more likely flaws in the recording/engineering process are going to be noticeable or obvious.

 

What you allege - the better the equipment the more 'magnified' the medias flaws / issues become - is largely 99% wrong. Is the other way around. Thats my experience and that of folks I know, both on and off this forum.

As far as the recording quality & mastering, no reasonable person disputes the fact that there is no way to 'undo' specific issues locked into the recording, or the media, or the processes in between. What can be done is frame or shape the playback by choosing the proper components and system chain to accentuate the 'right' elements -- and attenuate the lesser ones. Regardless of the media one plays back. Some of us that like CDs as well vinyl design our systems to present that media in a better light. To please our ears of course.

Steve used the 'Mona Lisa' analogy years ago and it is very apt. The painting is hundreds of years old and shows its age. It has flaws; little cracks in the paint, damage, etc. Mount it wrong, with wrong lighting, and the defects become apparent or pronounced. Mount / light another way -- and its presentation reaches its most ideal. The defects disappear and the beauty accentuated.

Music recordings - and the media they're ensconced in - all have 'defects' of one kind or another. We have places like this forum where folks can come together and share experiences and discuss the music playback & equipment realm. Its a vast one. Generalities are nice to be aware of, but theres a lot more to know.

 

I have had sibilance in the past on some records. Changing cartridge and stylus (from elliptical to Gyger II) changed everything. However, i have some records where sibilance did not go away completely after changing the cartridge.
This might be a mastering / pressing problem for that particular record (eg. not using a de-esser when cutting the record).
So bottom line: try to optimize your cartridge setup and most problems will go away. But not for all records.

 

You should really do some research on audio gear and specs and learn something about how it all works.

 

Uh, I haven't posted in this thread so I don't know why you're quoting me in it.

 

I do! But more importantly - I put it to practice and have long (and current) experience! I've built my systems carefully over the years, auditioning gear, I collect records and Cds, I get together with other forum members to talk gear and media and listen to their amazing systems and set ups. Music is a great hobby.

 

Then you should easily understand that if a cartridge has a defect in the cantilever or stylus or is simply a poor or weak design that has suppressed frequency reproduction ability at say 10k, and there is sibilance that climbs into 10k on the vinyl, that the cartridges inability to reproduce that frequency well could easily suppress the sibilance, as well as perhaps some of the shimmer and decay of cymbals and all other instruments at that frequency. This is really quite basic.

As an extreme example, if you have a bad cartridge that can reproduce nothing above 6k , it obviously would not reproduce sibilance.
Again, my point being that the most accurate cartridge available would not merely make the music reproduction more accurate and correct, it would also reproduce any flaws in the process up to and prior to the needle touching the vinyl more accurately. That could be anything that happened in the studio or in pressing to cause a flaw.
The purpose of striving for a flat response cartridge would be for the purpose of trying to get exact replication. And exact replication is just that, replication of everything that is there, including flaws.