Would a phono preamp make a difference?

Hey guys,

Have been reading the forum a lot before finally jumping into the vinyl world.
As a complete novice in this, I was offered a Audio Technica LP60 with Samson Mediaone BT4.

I'm quite satisfied with this all setup but I find the sound to be a little muffled or damped, not really expanding much and it's also slightly too "bassy" like if an EQ was set on "Increased Bass" or something.

I'm not really an audiophile but I've worked in a concert hall / opera and I think I can recognize great/outstanding music from just good.

My question is, I know my TT has a built-in preamp and I have quite a limited budget so would a phono preamp between the tt and the speakers would actually improve the sound?

I heard about the ART DJ PREII for example, would that be an interesting addition to my current setup?

I was also considering a cork mat, but that might not make much sense on a basic tt like mine...

Thanks for your advice

 

If your turntable has a built-in preamp, then you probably can't use a normal phono preamp with it.

And the unfortunate truth is that without spending a bit of money, you are probably going to be better off sticking with digital until you can afford a decent rig to play your vinyl. A TT doesn't have to be extremely expensive to sound nice. But those all in one TTs are not the ticket to good sound.

And yes, given a decent TT, a good phono preamp can often make a noticeable improvement to your sound.

 

Thanks for your feedback TarnishedEars.

Actually, I have a switch on the back of the TT with (phono/line) so I can in theory bypass the built-in preamp.

I just wonder if there would be a noticeable difference if I was to use a preamp instead of the built-in one.

I saw a couple of reviews/videos with people using the model above mine in the Audio-Technica range (which would be the LP120, a very very decent tt) and also trying to bypass it so mu reasoning was that the built-in preamp was not really a quality one.

 

Oh and also I don't have a Crosley or something like that so I'm pretty sure I can get good sound from my Audio-Technica AT-LP60 (which is a decent enough TT imho)

 

The ART is not an "audiophile" preamp. But it is definitely a step up from the AT built-in preamp, which is terrible. And it's cheap.

 

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. You have been given honest advice and you chose to dismiss it. So why start a thread on something you've already made your mind about ? It's not really about the outboard preamp, which is always a good thing to have if your amp lacks a phono input or has one but you want a better one, but about the minimum quality required to spin your records and get good sound out of them.

 

I can see how my "Crosley" comment may have come across as a bit cocky here.
That wasn't my intention.

Reading the very first answer to my question, I felt like I wasn't entitled to have a better listening experience with my current turntable and that the only option for me was to sell the whole thing, save money and suck it up until I can afford a high end tt.

I'll be happy to go for the external preamp

 

It doesn't need be a hi-end one. An AT LP 120 will get you there for 300 bucks. I know, it can be a lot of money if you don't have it; been there myself and my TT for the last 20 years has been a japanese Pioneer PL-3000 I bought used.

 

Yes. If you can bypass the on-board pre, you should be able to find an affordable phono pre that will improve your rig.

A lot of affordable stuff on the secondhand market including some great Vintage Amps / Receivers that have great Phono Stages.

 

Agreed, though for budget-minded people I would recommend going vintage. There's a lot of fine vintage turntables, Made in Japan direct drives in particular are reliably nice. Even better if it's Matsushita (Panasonic, Technics, MCS etc.) made. My entire system was under 300$ total, completely vintage and sounds excellent.

• Pioneer PL-4 w/ Shure M91ED - Jico EVG stylus (110$ total)
• DJ Art Pre II (50$)
• Pioneer SX-680 Receiver (42$)
• Baby Advent II Speakers (60$, needed tweeter on one speaker and refoaming on both)

In general I would look for something that can be upgraded and adjusted easily, for example a tonearm that uses SME headshells and a tonearm that allows for VTA adjustment.

 

A phono preamp is an amplifier that needs a large amount of gain, an accurate RIAA compensation curve and proper loading of the cartridge. There is a lot that could be less than ideal with many of them, so yes if it doesn't sound good, it may be a good idea to experiment beyond the inbuilt preamp.

 

I'm not sure what your price range is, but the Schiit Mani is an excellent preamp for $129 dollars.

 

I guess a turbo-charger or something would technically make a Ford Pinto perform better but ya still got a Pinto.

 

Thanks so much!
Great advice
I'll loot all these up

 

Getting back to the root of your problem - muffled sound and increased bass. Start with moving your speakers further into the room, away from back and side walls to see if there can be an improvement there. Is the turntable sitting on a cabinet or a dedicated audio rack? Anything that is a box (bedroom dresser, enclosed bookshelf) is likely to pick up vibrations from the speakers, increasing the bass you're hearing and smearing the audio image. If the turntable and the speakers are on the same shelf, separate them. Improvements are incremental and one thing may improve your system some, but will often lead you to see where the next improvement needs to be. First step is always optimizing your current set-up within your listening space. Do some research on this forum, and other forums, first and then fill out your equipment profile page. Until the folks here can see what you have between the turntable and speakers they won't be able to offer the most meaningful recommendations. Almost everyone here had a very basic system at one point in our lives and many will have experience with what you are using, making it easier to see what would be the most efficient upgrade from where you are now. Visit some charity/thrift stores and pick up some vintage gear to try out, You may find a better turntable and a stereo receiver for not much money. Good luck.

 

Thanks for the advice, I'll start here

 

Thanks! One more thing about the turntable in particular, it's sounds very nice but there are some things about it I don't like.

• Can't adjust VTA manually on tonearm, different/extra mats will work though
• Can't adjust azimuth, I use shims on one side and have gotten good at it though so I can make minor adjustments fast and easy.
• These models have a problem with speed consistency, it seems contact cleaner on the speed dial works but other times you have to open it up and clean it internally. (which I've heard isn't easy)

When I get the funds I plan on upgrading to a nice Technics model or Technics-made MCS, some SME headshells (Sumiko and Jelco iirc) allow for easy azimuth adjustment so that makes things easier.

 

Any turntable of that ilk will always sound muffled no matter what you do. That is because it is very cheaply made an includes a $10 cartridge.

When you upgrade, you should notice an ocean of difference. I would upgrade the turntable first then save for other parts of your system.

Don't bother with a standalone phono pre until you get a better turntable.

I also agree that vintage gives you the most bang for the buck. When you've got about ~$200-250 saved up come back here for advice and post your local CL or other places that sell used turntables.

 

thomasfaller, I have not crossed your path before, so let me extend my welcome to SHF's.

Since biblical times, advice doesn't always come the way you want it to come, nor, does the message necessarily convey what you want it to convey.

The real truth about vinyl is that it is a b****! And nothing is going to change that! And when you hear the words, "all you need to enjoy vinyl is..." DON'T LISTEN TO THEM!

You can look through this forum or any forum and you can find essentially the SAME WORDS. It doesn't matter what piece of equipment you are talking about. There is always something that your brain is going to tell you that is wrong with what you are listening to.

Your response will be, maybe if I ______________________________? (just fill in the blanks!).

You have a disease, it is an uncommon disease among the general population. It is, however the most prevalent disease in our community. Most of us are afflicted. There is known cure. It will affect you for the rest of your life. Get past the stage of denial. There is a support group here that will help you live with the disease. Others here recognize that you are afflicted, they will reach out to you. They are reaching out to you now.

What they are telling you is: Yes, a new such and such, will on a very tiny scale, help such and such, a very tiny bit.

But, you will still find the sound to be "a little muffled or damped, not really expanding much and it's also slightly too "bassy" like if an EQ was set on "Increased Bass" or something."

When it comes to TT's, life sucks and then you die. You will not come close to getting the sound that your heart desires out of the AT LP60.

Listen to your fellow members when they tell you:

"It's not really about the outboard preamp, which is always a good thing to have if your amp lacks a phono input or has one but you want a better one, but about the minimum quality required to spin your records and get good sound out of them."

and

"I guess a turbo-charger or something would technically make a Ford Pinto perform better but ya still got a Pinto."

and

"Any turntable of that ilk will always sound muffled no matter what you do. That is because it is very cheaply made an includes a $10 cartridge. "

So, after you replace the preamp, will discover than you need to replace your $10 cartridge with a better one. And once you do that, you will need to replace your tone arm because you cannot:

"

• Can't adjust VTA manually on tonearm, different/extra mats will work though
• Can't adjust azimuth, I use shims on one side and have gotten good at it though so I can make minor adjustments fast and easy.
• These models have a problem with speed consistency, it seems contact cleaner on the speed dial works but other times you have to open it up and clean it internally. (which I've heard isn't easy)

"

OR... You can just listen to nice sounding modern digital music, until you have all of the above figured out and you have enough money to buy the minimum that you need to get the SQ that you are after.

In the meantime...

Read, Learn, Repeat...

Signed, Your Friends @ SHF's

 

went from NAD 375pp to project rs to ifi iphono2.....ifi wins. not even close. better everything.