Yes!? NO! - The all purpose Yes arguing and complaining thread

Not true. Yes, Rabin and Horn played keys on the album, but Kaye's on there as well - most obviously on Hearts. I suspect it was much like Talk - Kaye played Hammond, Rabin mostly the other stuff.

Casey Young played with him, not for him. There's a difference.

 

I don't really care. To me it is every bit as much of a Yes album as Drama or anything that followed. This is a band that has undergone 40 years of constant lineup changes. I think that a certain part of their fan base is just bitter that they became "less prog". Believe it or not, one doesn't have to choose one "version" of Yes as the only legit one. I love 90125 - IMO it is a brilliant mix of prog and pop with unique songwriting and excellent vocals. Picking and choosing which are "real Yes" albums and which aren't is just silly. They had a revolving lineup. You may or may not like certain albums based on whatever your taste is - but they're all Yes albums.

Well...except for Open Your Eyes...

 

I consider Open Your Eyes the best thing they did after Drama, other than Magnification
(have we had that argument yet - haven't read all 40 pages)

 

Way back in the thread I posted Rabin's comments saying that the "offstage keyboardist" was a roadie triggering sounds and effects. He wasn't playing Kaye's parts for him.

I don't think Kaye plays much on 90125 though. He was a lot more involved on Big Generator.

 

All that tells me is that Rabin, while glad to cover for Tony on the albums to get his songs to sound the way he wanted them to, wasn't going to publically throw him under the bus.

 

I don't see any reason to think Kaye couldn't play what was required of him onstage. Anyone who has heard The Yes Album has heard his playing. I think people have confused his not really being on the albums with his not playing in the shows either.

He originated the parts on the Yes Album songs and the Rabin period stuff is much easier than that to play. That band only did a handful of other classic Yes songs and I think you can hear in their arrangements that they didn't bring in a ringer to replicate Wakeman's playing.

 

according to eddie jobson, kaye didn't come into the picture until 2 weeks before the tour was to start and only because the lawsuit forced the band to use another original member....his acct is in another thread (album by album) and I believe him

 

Ok, then tell me when isn't it a YES album? suppose Squire sells the rights to the name to Rabin or a record company and the only former yes member on the entire album is Rabin? or better yet how about Davidson keeps going calling the band yes and he is the only former yes member is that Yes?

I swear if they call it Yes some fans would defend it and buy it even if it is Squire belching into a microphone

I like some of 90125 but it is a band called cinema with some 80's sounding music...I like tears for fears too along the same lines

 

No, Kaye was a founding member of Cinema, he left for a short time and was coaxed back due to the legal issues.

If you think he can't play, look up the "Chroniolgical Journey" that Circa did...as 40 minute medley on which Kaye plays pieces from every Yes album (up till then).

 

oh i attended all the yeswest tours....I witnessed kaye not playing most of wakemans parts, i actaully at one point on the talk tour started laughing because he wasn't even pretending to touch the keyboard while the parts were coming out of the speakers...my brother turned to me and said "who is playing the keyboards?"

 

oh no....I think kaye can play, I like his playing on the first 3 albums. I was just commenting on the 80's and more specifically 90125

 

Neither Discipline nor 90125 were faithful to what has been before. Both bands could have easily started to operate under a new moniker.

However, if you really want to compare apples to oranges, then I would definitely put the Yes revamp in the same basket as the revamps of UK/Yes -> Asia and Genesis Quartet -> Trio, in the terms of aim, spirit and content. Actually, if Asia and Cinema had swapped a few compositions in 1982, they would have perfectly fit into each band's first album.

On the other hand, King Crimson -> Discipline shift had much more in common with Henry Cow -> Art Bears/The Work/Skeleton Crew transition than with any of the reconfigurations happening within the big prog family. Different aims, different spirit and vastly different content. And I really never care who played in a given band, but I much care how and what was played.

Unfortunately the pop path Yes chose in the 80s brought them finally to the current situation, where they have to schedule ardous tours filled with their own oldies and evergreens, using playback and auxiliary personnel hidden behind the stage, supporting acts like Styx. That is the price of switching to the pop circuit, where each new album has a very short expiry period if it does not yield a hit. And that is exactly why the only new era number in constant setlist rotation is "Owner of a Lonely Heart".

 

And very limited insignificant parts from what I have heard over and over again.

I'm glad someone mentioned the "Chronological Journey" because Kaye is Awesome on that and it often makes me wish that even if he would never return to Yes, that any keyboard player who IS playing with Yes would use a lot more organ and organic sounds.

 

While I don't have a problem with that in principle, in this case I would rather that you had not, because in that post I was exaggerating/venting somewhat for effect. The point was basically what I made here, just more vehement, so I'm not sure what it adds to the discussion. It certainly irritated me that even after that discussion you have continued to dismiss any criticism of Keys stuff by categorizing (usually with sarcasm) the critic as a "certain type" of fan rather than responding directly to whatever the criticism happens to be (which is a form of ad hominem argumentation). I have no problem with your disagreeing with my perspective on Keys, but it grates to have you dismiss it (or anyone else's perspective) with assumptions about what else they probably like (much of which is inaccurate), not to mention Kenny G (which I only brought up above because I believed you did earlier, though I may be remembering that incorrectly).

 

YES and Davison deliver the goods!
Pleasantly surprised how good the concert was last night; and all FIVE musicians did wonderfully. From the 5th row I couldn't spot any other musicians, by the way.
The only song (prior to the encores) that seemed a little anti-climatic was "Heart of the Sunrise" perhaps it was Alan losing a little steam. Not sure completely.
The two encores (All Good People and Owner) never really took off for me, and I started noticing that the snare drum seemed a little shy in the mix.
I'm especially curious to view the last three performances (via the live broadcast) to see/hear/feel if the energy did truly drop off or not.
Still, a great night of music including the new material. By the way, the opening act was a pleasant surprise.

So that's it. In just under a week, I saw Deep Purple, Paul McCartney and YES. I feel so lucky this happened all these decades later, for this hard core fan (of all 3).

 

Sorry, it won't happen again.

 

I agree with the beginning of your post comparing other bands, but I disagree with much of this last paragraph.

Yes pretty much left the "pop path" when they took an eternity to record Big Generator and essentially faded from public consciousness. Even when they've tried to return to the pop world since 1987, it hasn't worked and they've been completely ignored by the mainstream. I don't think they expect anything close to a repeat of 90125 at this point.

Also, Yes co-headlined with Styx. They did not support them. I saw the show in Denver, in which Yes did, in fact, go first. They were slow and hesitant and missed a bunch of cues, but overall it was still a powerful set. Styx was terrible. I left after about 45 minutes because I was tired of seeing Lawrence Gowan play the keys with his ass cheeks (literally).

Finally, Yes doesn't play much from their latter-day albums because frankly they're not very good. I can see them continuing to play "Believe Again" in years to come because it's a quality track that translates well to the live setting.

 

False!! Lots of great songs from the latter-day albums, but most fans I talk too (over the years) want their nostalgia fix....with their overpriced beer. lol

 

Honestly with a band like them - I think they're all Yes albums. Some I love, some I like, some I think are just OK, some I hate. I don't worry about it too much.

If you want to call them "Cinema" or "The Buggles" or whatever - well, knock yourself out. But to me and most of the rest of the world they're all Yes albums.

 

.........Y
..........e
The ASiA era?

...with Downes and Howe working together for the longest time (between two bands).

 

I think that The Asia Era wasn't that bad, I mean the first album - Fly From Here, but the new one is disappointing. I'm pretty sure that Jon will join the band soon.

 

That's pretty close to what happened on Talk.

 

I love it when fans of progressive rock get mad when their favorite bands actually progress.

 

No question that "fans wanting a nostalgia fix" is the biggest reason why none of the latter-day songs make the set list. We'll agree to disagree about their relative quality... I wouldn't mind hearing something like "Universal Garden" one day, but I might be the only person on the world that feels that way.

 

I don't think those two things have anything to do with one another.