Yessongs Japan 2009 remaster vs Japan 1999 HDCD remaster

The packaging isn't much for me. Those mini-lps are a neat idea but really just tiny scans of the original LP covers in the end. Maybe I'm getting old but I don't really get the appeal of having something conceived of being album artwork squeezed into such a miniature scale. I seem to recall the SHM of Yessongs was larger than usual and in book form, but I've got an original US LP that I'd definitely go to for "packaging".

Sound-wise, I think I tried like 3 of the SHM titles and gave up. Easily right up there with the HDCD's for poorest mastering of Yes on CD, IMO.

 

I have the original Atlantic but while it's not compressed at all it really doesn't sound that great and it could use some compression and some more high end. While I know the Japanese remasters are crappy and I do have the HDCD mini LP set I guess what I was hoping for from the 2009 remaster was the possibility that it will be less compressed then the older HDCD remaster and have better dynamics. My player doesn't decode HDCD so the old release has very low dynamic range numbers. I believe the 2009 remaster isn't HDCD so it may have better dynamics. I don't mind some compression and some extra treble for Yessongs as I think it needs it. I don't see how anything can be worse then the HDCD set and a few people said that the mastering engineer in Japan used a little more restraint with the 2009 remasters. I know for Big Generator the dynamic range numbers are about 4-5 better for the 2009 remaster then the old HDCD version so I was hoping for the same thing for Yessongs. Call me insane!!

 

Why do you think the original could use some compression?

 

I doubt those DR numbers are right for Big Generator but I don't really know that album.

I don't see Yessongs 2009 SHM on the Loudness Wars site but the other 2009 SHM's look awful and score like 8. I can't see why Yessongs would be any different and I remember it sounding really compressed.

For example, Relayer has the 2009 SHM listed and as far as compression it's even worse than the decoded HDCD:

Album list - Dynamic Range Database »

 

Brightening up the original recording (ala the SHM-CD) makes the vocals sibilant (which I would have thought was not possible with this recording). It doesn't need compression or equalisation IMHO. Accept its sonic shortcomings and that adding equalisation makes things worse and the original Atlantic becomes quite acceptable. Keep the Japanese sets for the cover art if needs be. Or buy Progeny for the remix of all the Alan White tracks.

 

Those for BG are correct

 

My player doesn't decode HDCD discs so the DR Relayer HDCD(not decoded) is 6 while the 2009 SHM DR numbers are 8, 7 and 10. That is why I thought Yessongs would be better then the HDCD version as the mastering engineer didn't go quite as crazy with as much compression on the 2009 SHM discs.

 

I think that on CD I have yet to hear a decent version of Yessongs. I think some added compression would add some needed punch as well as some EQ boosting up the high end on certain tracks. The tracks Bruford plays on are brighter then the tracks that White plays on so I think some high end on the White tracks would help as well.

 

I guess so but people have different tastes and tastes do change. I think you liked the Rhino of Tales for example and then re-evaluated it and now prefer the original first CD release(?). I just find the original Yessongs CD very dull sounding. I remember the LP and I think it sounded better then the original CD.

 

OK you're insane People have different ears, no doubt. I listened to Yessongs/Progeny last night on vinyl (about half the tracks from each for the full experience) and thought Yessongs had plenty of high end (perhaps too much even) but poor low end and Progeny had the reverse. Are the CDs that different from the vinyl? I have pondered getting Yessongs on CD just to compare.

 

I'm told the LP's sound better then the CD's. The first CD release sounds better then the 1994 Gastwirt remaster. The original CD release definitely does not have too much highs on any of the tracks. However I read that certain Piros LP's don't sound as good as other ones. I'm not an expert on vinyl by any means but I have read in various threads that quite a few people think the vinyl releases were cut with added extra high end so maybe that is what you are hearing.

 

I'm actually listening to Perpetual Change on Youtube on the official Warner Youtube page and there is actually more high end on the version on Youtube then on the first 80's CD set. It's lossy but actually sounds really good.

 

I'm curious if you can remember why you preferred the original Atlantic over the Gastwirt? I think the Gastwirt remaster has more low end and a slightly fuller sound while not being compressed. Also why did Offord make the drums sound so phasey? It's only on the tracks with White and on some songs it's really annoying after a while. Boy do I wish the multi's were still around and Steven Wilson could remix it.

 

How about The Yes Album and Fragile 2009 Remaster? I have The Yes Album MFSL CD but i wanna find another cd version.

 

on CD the barry diament for The Yes Album , and the gastwirt ('94) for Fragile.

 

Is the yes album steven wilson remix fine?

 

i own the bluray version . the wilson remix is fine, but the flat transfer of the original recording is even better . Now this depend on your system: if you got an average Bluray or DVD player , the first CD by barry diament will sound better.

 

Thank you!

 

I prefer the Japanese SACD of YESSONGS the best, and yes, I own the Atlantic CDs, the Japanese HDCD, and the U.K. Blu-ray Disc.

 

Hi, Scottb.

Just wanted to throw my two cents in. I'm not nearly as well-versed in audio equipment as most of the folks on this thread are. I don't have the HDCD master as a basis for comparison, but I do have the original vinyl version, the Gastwirt remaster and the Japan SHM remaster. To my ears, the SHM is brilliant. "Yessongs" has always been one of the most brilliant performances poorly recorded in the history of live albums, in my opinion. But whatever Isao Kikuchi did (and I'm sure compression was involved) made the vocals sharper and more balanced, the instruments more clearly defined and seemed to wipe the aural "fog" off the record.

Again, I'm no audio expert, but when I'm in the mood to listen to "Yessongs," my pick is the SHM. But of course, it's all very subjective. We all have different preferences, and I'm sure that what sounds excellent to me might not sound that great to others.

Peace.

 

Thanks for the info as I really appreciate it. Just to make sure we're on the same page the SHM CD you have is just the standard SHM CD and not the hybrid SACD right?

 

I know this isn't the proper thread but I have never been crazy about the secret Big Generator remaster. I have found it to low in volume. No matter how much I turn up the volume on my system there is just no power in this remastering. I have plenty of original 80's CD's with great DR numbers that sound great but look at the DR numbers below. I mean a DR 16 for Rhythm of Love. If the secret remaster was just a few DB louder it would sound much better.

Album details - Dynamic Range Database

 

Correct. It's the standard SHM CD.

 

I need to go back and re-listen to both again, it's been awhile. At first I was going for the US RE-01 and then to Future City's amusement I leaned towards my old German. What I should do is level match both of them and see if I hear any differences

 

I normally have no issue with old early 80's CD's that have great DR numbers but I greatly prefer the original BG CD. It's brighter for sure but it has more power to it. There is such a thing as a DR number being too high. For classical music that's great but a DR of 17 for Big Generator is too low. I have the Billy Joel MFSL of 'The Stranger' and I can only play the redbook layer but I find the same thing as the volume is way to low. I never have to turn my volume past 12:00 for any CD including all the DCC and AF discs but The Stranger is just way too low. Go figure as The Yes Album is much louder so it's really hit and miss these days with MFSL.