Your thoughts on a Harman Kardon/TEAC/Yamaha/Polk system

For the last few years I've been running my Music Hall MMF 5 turntable through a Onkyo TX-NR709 AV as stereo through the front left and right of my 5.1 configuration.

I've been thinking of removing the turntable from that equation, and have been offered by an acquaintance the following:

Harman Kardon PM665 amp
Yamaha T520 Tuner
TEAC PD-D2200 CD player
Polk Audio 11T speakers

...for $300 total. I doubt I'd much use the receiver or CD player, and I've been researching the other components, but I'd welcome any feedback or reactions here as well.

Thank you!

 

Seems like a good bunch of stuff for that price. The amp appears to have pre-out/main-in jacks meaning you can PROPERLY connect a subwoofer (somehow needing a highpass filter, like Harrison Labs or such). That is a nice and unfortunately uncommon feature, so I like it. Some H/Ks of that vintage did not have the greatest signal-to-noise ratio but this one seems good.

 

Thanks for the comment, and apologies for the delay in response as I was away. Can you elaborate about the "needing a highpass filter" aspect?

And any further opinions from anyone else are welcome! Thanks

 

What a DEAL!, the speakers cost over three times that amount, when they were new. the Polk Audio 11t's are part of Polk's older RTA line, which were Polk's top of the line for conventional speakers. The cabinet veneer is real, furniture grade wood or vinyl finish.


All in all, you will have a great sound system for your $300 outlay. Go for it!

 

I wouldn't pass up a deal like that!

 

That's what I thought Thanks, folks!

 

Normal sized speakers strain to put out low bass, moving their cones a lot which distorts (muddies) the rest of the sound. A highpass filter reduces the bass energy (=passes the high frequencies, hence highpass, but not the lows) so the woofers don't move as much. It also reduces the power the amp is wasting trying to drive the bass. If you add a subwoofer but don't highpass the main amp and speakers, they are still straining to put out the low bass and your sound is still limited by this. Stupidly, most stereo hardware provides no accommodation for this at all.

 

I agree - is there a way around this?

I’ve been looking at amps and most don’t have a dedicated output for a subwoofer...

Any amps that you have come across and would recommend?

 

Thank you sincerely for the explanation! I told the seller I'd take the speakers and the amp, for the $300. The other two components sell for very little, and I just don't need them taking up space if I'm not using them. Looking forward to hearing things hooked up, and I will be looking into the sub aspects.

 

AND, it is NOT enough to have a subwoofer OUTPUT. Most those don't have internal filtering either-one NAD, maybe. You have to literally ask each manufacturer if they have an internal highpass filter. (and if they answer no, ask them "why the hell not?!?!"

The way around it is to buy a home theater receiver and use just two channels. Nothing wrong with that, though some feel the sound is not as "pure" as dedicated two channel units. Since neither Stereophile nor anyone else does detailed measurements or listening comparisons like that, there is no evidence either way. Hmmm, it would make an interesting afternoon get-together, eh?

 

I have a feeling that that this is a secret conspiracy to make consumers crave for a more full ‘range sound’ and fork out more to upgrade to a full range system.

If mid-range brands started offering a sub-out with high pass filter and activating that when a sub in plugged in.

Preferably an active sub as to not to strain the performance of the amplifier as a three-way signal can be difficult to process? (I’m making an assumption here)

Some active speakers have this preprogrammed already I think?

Anyway - I set up my budget active sub on an integrated amp (Marantz MCR510) - and tried fiddling/setting my own high pass filter by setting Treble to +2/4db and Bass to -2/4db. (I wish that these adjustments could be more precise... )

Shame that my sub doesn’t have a phase knob to adjust the crossover - but I think the it handles up to 200Hz per the brochure.

The sub is really soft/quiet and I’m not sure if it is working. It only rumbles at lower frequencies...

I hope I’ve managed to improve my “first” system by adding a sub, by adding to the range of the speakers.

I will purchase an amplifier/pre-amp with tone controls and a sub-out... and by the looks of things my options are quite limited - mostly Japanese I think - I got my eyes on the Yamaha AS-500... although I would really like a continental brand...

I’m hoping a Rega DAC will change the clean sound of the Yamaha if I get it.

 

No one can offer a legitimate/meaningful comment on your system unless they listen to it.

 

Even passive subs need their own separate amplifier with crossover. Due to the impedance peaks of the subwoofer and the woofer, passive subwoofer crossovers simply don't work.

Such a good question! I highly doubt it; I have never seen such a feature mentioned (well, maybe on some pro models, but not consumer stuff). Another stupidity.

Research by IIRC Tom Holman/THX (and Harman?) showed a 3rd order=18 dB per octave lowpass filter at 80 Hz was not localizable if the output was not distorted. In other words, you wouldn't be able to tell where the subwoofer is. 200 Hz would be very high. What subwoofer do you have?[/QUOTE]

The Yamaha is now AS-501, though you could get a used one. And as far as I can tell, it cannot properly accommodate a subwoofer either. AND if you then want to get a DAC to change the sound, why get the Yamaha in the first place? Get something else with a DAC that you like already built in, that seems simpler.

 

Yes! I want to get the AS-500 used (although it doesn’t fit my Kallax shelf! So thinking of alternatives) because I don’t really need a DAC - I think I’m sticking to the Rega DAC...

I listened to the RDAC on the Marantz M-CR510 although it was more melodious/clearer/more digital and lacked composure (it wasn’t wrapped up and was all over the place).

I prefer the Rega DAC - it sounded more composed and less digital, more analogue and I gained more enjoyment from the music... The music just flowed.

I’m not sure if it is a preference after 2 weeks with it - but I’ll give the Marantz DAC another listen tomorrow and see the difference is subtle but the rhythm and kick is missing... This won’t be apparent if you watch TV with it —- more pronounced with digital music.

I know some people can’t hear a difference, the guy who sold me the DAC moved on to the Pioneer N70AN I think - I’ve not heard his set up but I saw lots of Naim kit (amps etc.)

***On a side note - I was in my friend’s VW Passat(?) today (2012) and we were listening to Digital Radio, the music was just so bad - the car had a horrible DAC - everything sounded so flat!

I’m sticking with the Rega DAC for now - and searching for a used preamp/amp set up (and then expand to a power amp - if I need it). Really tempted by the Brio-R/Elex-R because it is the right size for my shelf, or the NAD 3050?

The M-CR sounds okay - a bit muffled and tired I feel. Could do with an amp with more energy. So I think I’ll sell it, if there’s a willing buyer.

I was reading some specs on the Marantz/(Yamaha) sub-out I think it has a low pass filter of 80 Hz? I think it was AS-501.

It doesn’t make sense not to have a low/high pass filter when you offer a “sub-output” - it’s only natural to do so. A sub for the audiophile isn’t to add more base but to add more range so the drivers don’t work so hard to create the lower frequencies.

I do feel that there is a general stigma in setting up a sub because it is linked to AV systems and hence not “audiophile” enough (I’m assuming)

I got the Yamaha NSW100 sub - and the Dali Zensor 1s plugged into the Marantz MCR510 and I’m currently using the DAC as a receiver... I really want the AS-500 - but it is huge and won’t fit my small shelf (which measures 34cm) - I managed to fit the sub behind the shelf and it does make a difference!

I do think that Sonos is catching on on in this area because they have a subwoofer designed to fit their system. The y actually sound pretty good - but I’m not really a generic sort of guy, or so I like to think (!)

If the other brands don’t wake up to this and still stick to 2 channels then Sonos will have first mover advantage... if the 2.1 bug catches on and eat up a chunk of market share (speculating).

**Do you liken Sonos to the Apple of the Hi-fi Industry?

Why is it so difficult to integrate a sub into the amplifier!! Can’t the manufacturers make our lives easier? I did look at active crossovers etc - but I don’t want to add more bulk to my system! (All these wires are doing my head in!)

I initially started out on Active speakers and then branched out to my first passive system today... (mainly because the bundle was cheaper than my Actives) because I wasn’t satisfied with the built in DAC of the actives ... which didn’t buffer and reclock the data from my Apple Express... I then got the DAC and the Actives couldn’t handle the voltage/impedance from the DAC - so I’m returning them!

***2.1 systems need to be given more emphasis and high and low pass filters!!
Not sure about active cross overs yet - but I will get to that stage at some point - I’ll need to discuss with my Dad at some point - he used to have A/C system - too advanced for me right now.

I looked at crossovers earlier today - more wires and machines, I just put it aside. I did come across a pretty cool gadget though - they were high pass filters that looked like attenuators to be plugged into RCAs.

Any amp suggestions for me? Cheap, cheerful and substantial - I do like the

 

Obviously. But experiences or past history of others who may have had these components can be quite helpful.

Interesting discussion above. Thanks!

 

Let us know how everything works out.