10 most important figures in 20th century music

Miles Davis
John Coltrane
Ella Fitzgerald
Brian Wilson
John Lennon
Paul McCartney
Bob Dylan
Maria Callas
Leonard Bernstein
Herbert von Karajan

 

I think debating such issues is positive. We can either accept to be stuck in our views, or we can accept to hear the views of those who see differently to us, and then - as Atticus said to Scout: "climb inside of his skin and walk around in it.” That's how we learn. I have learned much from this forum - I find it to be the most knowledgeable forum about music on the internet. In holding a discussion and collecting together our thoughts to put forward our views we find ourselves either consolidating our own position, or finding it crumble. And in addition to that, people bring forward new insights or pieces of information. And I agree that there is a body of thought that the Sun recordings (though I've not heard the arguments for the RCA recordings) are not just a set of primitive but exciting amalgamations of bluegrass and RnB, but are a new form of music - the genesis of rock and roll. But I am sure you are also aware that there is a rather large group of musicians and recordings which are claimed as the genesis of rock and roll - and if any of us bases our argument that Elvis was an important figure in 20th century on the claim that he invented rock and roll, then we are likely to accused of having a narrow view of the genesis of rock and roll. Indeed, the general thought these days is that rock and roll and rockabilly was not developed at one moment by one man (such as Elvis) but was a much longer, slower, and wider development among a bunch of people. However, what I would agree, is that Sam Phillips was an important figure in that development, as at his Sun Studios were recorded most of the records and artists that are associated with the birth of rock and roll and of rockabilly, including Rocket 88 in 1951 by Ike Turner and Jackie Brenston.

Jackie Brenston & His Delta Cats - Rocket 88 - YouTube

And Blue Suede Shoes by Carl Perkins:

Blue Suede Shoes - YouTube

At least three people so far have listed Sam Phillips as one of the 10 most important figures, and I find that a more compelling addition than Elvis. However, I do understand the listing of Elvis, as many of us were brought up with the story that Elvis invented rock and roll and rockabilly as well as being the first marketable sex symbol (though Johnnie Ray has an earlier claim, though is less remembered these days)

Johnnie Ray Such a night 1954 - YouTube

The problem with Elvis is that it is hard to unravel the hype from the reality. And, even then, there is the (at the very least) "convenience" that Elvis was at the cusp of rock and roll's emergence, the cusp of rockabilly's emergence, was a mega star, was young and sexy and a great image, and had an awesome singing voice. All those things together in one package is attractive and compelling, and as such I can both understand and accept that he is an important figure in 20th century music. But I do have serious doubts that, with more compelling claims - such as that of Stravinsky or Brian Eno (or Sam Phillips) - he should be in the top ten. However, I remain awake to further discussion. And thank you for the article,

The Most Important Single in Rock History Turns 60: 'That's All Right,' Indeed! (yahoo.com)

I find Willman's assessment: "Nowadays, no one with a sense of history and a straight face would claim that this Sun Records 45 was actually the first rock recording .... But you could make a good case that the spirit of rock 'n' roll was invented with this single." to be interesting, and accords with my own view above that the compilation of items both in that recording and what shortly followed makes Elvis a compelling focus or figurehead for the "spirit of rock 'n' roll".

 

Without more narrow criteria, it's very hard to limit this to just ten people, but for general criteria, I think it would be difficult to eliminate any of the following:

Arnold Schoenberg
The Beatles
Chuck Berry
Ella Fitzgerald
Elvis Presley
Frank Zappa
Igor Stravinsky
Johnny Cash
Jimi Hendrix
Miles Davis

I'm not including many people that should be included, though.

 

Miles Davis
Ella Fitzgerald
John Coltrane
Charlie Parker
The Beatles
Shostakovich
Kraftwerk
Brian Eno
Velvet Underground
Duke Ellington

 

The OP literally says...”and bands”.
I’ve only started this thread so I’m sure your miss has been noticed more than once already, but one more comment can’t hurt.

 

My understanding is that neoclassicism is largely a dead-end and dead style of music, over-taken by contemporary classic music. I can take the argument that Stravinsky influenced film music composers (and there has been some great film music). But I'm unsure that an argument that someone developed a music style which was comparatively short lived and which was overtaken by a more ambitious, wide-ranging, forward-looking, and successful music style, is that convincing.

And wasn't the main elements of neoclassicism taken from more progressive and modern and successful forms of music, such as jazz? Have you considered the claims of those who regard Louis Armstrong as one of the 10 most important? I should think that Stravinsky was influenced by Armstrong.

Louis Armstrong and his Hot Five - Fireworks (1928) - YouTube

 

Yes, and not just musicians, but anyone who was influential on music - so people have listed, for example, Sam Phillips, and I listed Phil Spector.

 

Stravinsky was one of the most influential classical composers period. It wouldn't be an overestimate to figure that 70% of composers in his wake count him as an influence. (And his work certainly wasn't limited to neoclassical stuff.) He had completely unique harmonic, rhythmic, voicing and melodic vocabularies (roughly in that order of importance) that many found inspiring. When I was in music school, theory/composition students were almost reluctant to mention him as an influence because it was so cliche, but the majority were heavily into him.

 

I would say that after the big three of Schoenberg Berg and Webern Stravinsky got the most attention in the recent Boulez book Music Lessons. He’s still right up there.

 

I agree with the general opinion here regarding Elvis being one member of a team of architects that help to design the structure and viability of the new rock 'n' roll genre. He was certainly not the only one coming up with something brand new, and he was drawing from the past no doubt, as almost everybody does, Lol. And thanks for not going to the stale argument that "Elvis did not write his own songs." I respect you for not bringing that argument up. I always remind people that we would have to dismiss Frank Sinatra and countless other greats, if that was the sole standard of creativity.

Thank you for starting such a great thread, and I have to admit the consensus top ten opinion is pretty hard to argue with in my opinion. I think it beats my own top ten list as well, where several of my picks probably reveal my own musical tastes a little too much, Lol. I always try to look at these thing objectively. If I was talking about sheer talent alone, Charlie Rich might be at the very top of my list or at least right next to Elvis, but how many artists did Charlie Rich influence over time? He sure influenced my musical journey, but I don't really matter in the greater scheme of things. Sam Philips went on record saying that Charlie Rich was the only artist that he ever worked with who had the overall talent to equal or surpass Elvis's.

 

Vanilla Ice

 

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............ The Alternative Top Ten .





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Yes, you are right. I was just reading the title, which said "figures," which would exclude bands.

The OP was not consistent with the title of the thread and his first post.

 

it is like some people just don’t want to include Elvis because of whatever reason. Regarding Dylan, he even wrote a song about Elvis. In return Elvis recorded Tomorrow is a lomg time, a favorite of Dylan. Elvis knew a lot of folk music as well, Later in his career Elvis sort of steered towards a folk album. While he did record some songs, the
the project fell through.

also, i think a lot of artists, including Dylan, picked up on what Elvis was doing in the studio, being his own producer. Not as normal then as it would soon become.

 

Mike Batt.
Ringo Starr.
Chris Rea.
Trevor Burton.
Gary Glitter.
Dean Friedman.
'Legs' Larry Smith.
Frank Sidebottom.
Andrew Rude-Oldman.
David Gilmour's wife.

In no particular order.

 

• Louis Armstrong, as both musician and singer
• Miles Davis, for bringing modal music into the mainstream
• Billie Holiday, for proving that singing is about feeling, not vocal range
• Woody Guthrie, for laying down the singer/songwriter template that would conquer all
• Colonel Parker, for creating the modern rock star
• Chuck Berry, for binding rock n roll and teenagers together
• Frank Sinatra, for ending the crooner era of male vocalists
• Willie Dixon, for transforming the blues to an urban, popular artform
• John Hammond, for discovering and giving a platform to, musicians who would change the world.
• The Ramones, for reigniting the anarchic spirit of rock n roll
• The Beatles, for obvious reasons.

 

For all the talk of Elvis, I'd have to recognize Sam Phillips as the most influential rockabilly figure. And, for bonus points, he recorded early Howlin' Wolf.

 

If one gets all the credits for discovering Elvis Presley, it's Marion Keisker (assistant Memphis Recording Service/radio show host). She was the one who saw potential in Elvis, due to the fact he was different and a good ballad singer, and therefore wrote down his name.

Marion Keisker was the one who kept reminding and advising Sam Philips, for this guy ''Elvis Presley'' and kept Elvis in mind for certain songs, which Philips refused several times to have it sing in by Elvis. This is a truly misunderstanding that Sam Philips discovered Elvis Presley.

 

One of the points I was trying to make is that while Stravinsky was very good at classical music, classical music in itself is not as relevant to the 20th century as some other forms of music, and that one of the really exciting aspects of music in the 20th century is the emergence of the new forms. An interesting aspect of Stravinsky is that he took on board some of the ideas of one of these new forms, Jazz, as well as ideas from older, more traditional popular forms, such as folk music, which during the 20th century would develop into greater cultural and artistic significance. So, credit to him for being aware of other forms and incorporating them, and so making classical music a little more relevant in the 20th century, and credit to him for inspiring film music composers. But in a crowded field, my own feeling is that we should be looking to those who were more fully immersed in developing or creating the new forms, rather than those who were attempting to keep an older and no longer socially and culturally relevant music form alive. This is not to say I don't admire or like Stravinsky (I've had Rite of Spring and The Firebird Suite in my album collection since the early Seventies), nor that I'm not open to arguments that he should be in the Top Ten. But that arguments that he was good at what he did, and inspired others in his own field, is not in itself a compelling argument for being in the top ten. Eric Clapton, for example, is very good at playing guitar and has been an astonishing influence, yet I appear to be alone in feeling he is significant. And we could list many others who were great at what they did and were hugely influential in their field - such as Little Walter, but if they didn't have an impact beyond their own field, or if their own field was limited, short-lived or in decline, then I think that claims from figures in more wide-ranging and/or vibrant and/or multi-disciplined fields would be more compelling.

 

It is stunning how many world class artists were first recorded by Sam Phillips. The more I think about it, the more I think that Sam Phillips should be in the Top Ten. He didn't just record people - he put people together, and nurtured them. Charlie Rich would not be Charlie Rich without Sam shoving some Jerry Lee Lewis records into his hand, and telling him to **** off and not come back until he could play as dirty as that.

 

That's only seven, as Huey, Dewey, and Louie are a band, and so count as one.

 

I think with Elvis, it's because he's an obvious choice - if asked to name ten important figures in 20th century music, for most people Elvis is certainly going to come to mind as a contender. So it's then a matter of deciding if he should be in or out of the top ten. Reasons that he should be in, like "he invented rock and roll", then need to be questioned. And that's what people are doing. I think the view that he embodied the spirit of rock and roll (at least for white people) is certainly one worth considering.

I really liked and admired Elvis when I was younger, and swallowed whole the notion that rock and roll was created the moment he sang a sped up version of "That's All Right Mama" in July 1954. Over the years I have learned more, and now feel that no one person can be said to have created rock and roll - though, for me, a good argument could be made for Chuck Berry with "Maybelline" when he took a country record ("Ida Red") and put a sexy RnB beat to it, with searing electric guitar and lyrics about girls and cars, and then cut THE classic rock record "Johnny B. Goode". Personally I'd put Berry over Elvis every time. I can hear Berry in pretty much every rock record made ever since, but Elvis in only a handful. Elvis had the image and the appeal, while Berry had the music, the riffs, and the lyrics.

 

yes for gaston and the cosmo smurfs!!! ha haha

 

Good list with good rationales. I had to look up John Hammond, as I couldn't recall the name. Yes, as with Sam Philips - he exemplifies the non-musician/composer figures who were important to 20th century music.

 

Hmm. You have a point. But you may have missed the point about Sam Phillips. It wasn't that he "discovered" Elvis, it's that he built a studio that attracted some of the major figures associated with the birth of rock and roll and rockabilly, and that he encouraged and facilitated them (Ike Turner, Roy Orbison, Jerry Lee Lewis, Johnny Cash, Carl Perkins, etc). Yes, Phillips wasn't hugely impressed with Elvis the first couple of times he came into his studio, but then neither was anyone else - he'd been rejected as a singer by local bands he'd auditioned for. It was only when Phillips put Elvis together with Scotty Moore and Bill Black and gave them space to fool around that Elvis eventually came up with "That's All Right" and Phillips had the judgement to put it out as a single.