1970s Infinity WTLC speakers - anyone have experience with these?

A friend suggested that I buy a pair of vintage Infinity speakers online. The model is WTLC, and apparently they are rather rare. They have unusual Walsh tweeters, which look like the metal funnels used to top off the oil in your car engine. Here's a pdf of the original brochure from 1976
http://www.davidsaudio.com/Infinity_WTLC.pdf

Someone posted an example online (not my speaker)




The speakers I bought are supposedly all original, but need a refoam job. They will hopefully arrive later this week.

1) Does anyone here own Infinity WTLCs, or have information/advice?


2) Also, the brochure specs call for at least 20 wpc. Can I run these speakers with tube gear, or will they need solid state mega watts?



Thanks!

 

Any Infinity experts out there?

 

What are you wanting to know? I ran a pair for years in an old home theater setup as the surrounds. They eventually ended up in my catch all audio room for gear not really being used. After a couple years, I gave them to a friend for his 2-channel rig.

 

^^^Great picture!

How did you like the sound quality?

Can I power these speakers with tube amps?

 

There are the hidden jewel in vintage speakers. Now they are not your slam the walls rock speaker. If you're into that pick up a pair of Cerwin Vegas and turn the amp to 11. These are well rounded with tight bass and great detail. Some won't like the tweeter top configuration because it does give the speaker a very open and airy sound. You get the front firing at you and the reflections off the back surface (think Bose 901). The do well with low power but they really open up when you give them plenty of juice to get the dual woofers moving.

Most any speaker can be driven with a tube amp. The question is how big a tube amp and with tube watts costing about double a SS watt, you have to consider budget. I would say you need a least 50 tube watts or 100+ SS watts to really enjoy these.

 

Post by Oktyabr found on the web

A word or two about my WTLCs


Well, I got a couple of solid hours of listening in today. My wife helped me carry them upstairs and re-arrange stuff. She even agreed to be my impartial judge! My neighbor disappeared for one of those suprise birthday parties for a child's friend that he had somehow forgotten about until the last minute so the 10 year old guitar player that lives upstairs sat in for a listen too, between trips to the kitchen.

We listened to a variety of music on them from classical violin to classic rock and a few curve balls thrown in just for fun! I know I don't have the sort of amp and source that would be best for this sort of thing but I did the best with what I have at the moment. I used straight CD sources (no digital .flac files like I would normally listen to) played through a suprisingly good Samsung HD841 DVD player via optical to my Sony STR-DA4ES home theater receiver. I ran my Cerwin Vega DX9's on the "B" channel an d the Infinities on the "A" with fairly good quality heavy guage wires of equal length (about 10 feet each).

Like the Panasonics in my "dungeon" the Vegas required notably less power than the Infinities to drive at a "nice" listening level. The meter on my DA4 is rated -db and "loud enough" for the Vegas was right around -38db while the Infinities required a bit more twist on the knob to right around -32db even to provide the same sort of volume of sound. Of course I really didn't expect it to be a very fair comparison... the Cerwin Vega DX-9 are nearly 4 foot tall, 100lbs a piece, 400w@ 4 Ohm and 102db of sensitivity with 1 watt! I couldn't find any technical specs on the WTLC but they are obviously no where near that effecient.

So we flipped the speaker selector back and forth and listened to many tracks on both speakers:

Immediately lacking was the really deep end. Where the WTLC were rolling off (they are rated down to 35Hz I think) the DX-9 were just coming really alive. One track we listened to in particular, the fully symphonic track "Rejigue" from Alan Parson's "Try Anything Once" album has a symphony kettle drum that builds early in the track like the rolling in of distant thunder. The DX-9's carried this to our ears from the very first drum beat and probably close to half of this five or six second roll was lost on the WTLC.

My wife was the first to say she preferred the WTLC on "The Hounds of Winter" by Sting, from his "Mercury Falling" album, and I agreed with her. Where the DX-9 was like stepping into a cage match with the incredible hulk, at least when the deep end was really needed, the WTLC was the control and precision of a bald eagle on the hunt, and this is actually a pretty good analogy too! The WTLC were very strong in the mids and highs, sounding more three dimensional than the DX-9s and subtly more controlled in it's transitions between a low-mid bass drum and crystaline ringing of a very delicate chime.

Vocals, we both agreed, were the WTLC's strong suite as were the mids and highs. I heard a triangle here and a crash cymbal there that were perfectly recreated as well and brass was no exception when it really had the soundstage to itself as evidenced in our listening of Rammstein's "Te Quiero Puta" from the "Rosenrot" album (german industrial metal group singing in spanish?!?!)

Next up was B-Tribe's "Hablame" from "Sensual, Sensual". For those that are not familiar with B-Tribe they are a bit eclectic leaning towards ambient, trancy, electronic tunes but most notable for their profluent use of classical spanish guitar and other flamenco influences in their music and it was this element I was looking at trying. I really expected the WTLC to excel here and they did a fine job, as long as the acoustic guitar was mostly unfettered by other sounds and instruments. Vocal chants early in the track were almost ghostly in their ability to be projected deep into the sound field as well, again besting the larger DX-9's for the three dimensional character of the sound. Once a deep vocal hum became a key element in the track the DX-9 carried the song more naturally with a richer tonal presence.

Discouraged but not resigned I popped Regina Carter "Paganini: After a Dream" into the player. Regina Carter is an American, woman, jazz violinist. She was also the first ever non-classical violinist to get to play "The Cannon", a violin built in 1734 for the great violinist Nicolo Paganini... insured for untold millions and touched by only a select handful of mere mortals, truly an Italian national treasure. This CD is her recording of this once in a lifetime event, recorded and mastered with such care as to be a treasure of a sort of it's own and the WTLC's did not disappoint.

In fact this was the one CD my wife and I both agreed 100% sounded much better on the Infinities than on the Cerwin Vegas! You could almost hear every grain of rosin as it danced in the air above the strings, boy that instrument sang. It's unfair to say this was a good example of the WTLC's handling of "highs" because this particular recording of this particular violin is certainly not constrained to a narrow band of octaves but rather dipping quite low for such a instrument on occasion. Again, for some reason, the WTLC's did not faulter here either.

Track #4, "Pavane", starts with what sounds like a rain stick and the WTLC's conveyed the granular nature of the sound with such clarity that by the time the first notes from the violin came in I had a chill run up my spine. Complementing the violin in most of these tracks is an assortment of jazz instruments including a very fine piano, an upright bass and a full jazz drum kit. No where, anywhere, on this whole CD, did the WTLC's disappoint. Very easy for me to quit writing at this point and say these are really excellent speakers for good jazz at the very least.

My particular pair of WTLC, both my wife and I agreed, surpassed the DX-9 for most jazz and classical and did very well with most other instruments and styles of music too, only being pushed aside when thundering drums, electronic pads or bass were added to the equation. They just couldn't stand up to the DX-9's when a musical piece containing a broader range of frequencies was presented, sounding a bit flat, cold, and dry by comparison or allowing the mids, especially vocals, to be overran and muddied by it's attempt at producing powerful bass in some particular tracks.

In reality they are probably the more neutral of the speakers I listened to today, bringing a violin or piano to life in a way I've seldom heard from electronics. Between the two they certainly made string instruments (and the piano) sound as "real" as any equipment I've had the pleasure of listening to in my living room, as well as bells, chimes, cymbals and some brass horns too.

The DX-9's by comparison seemed warmer and richer by coloration and design favoritism of the lower bandwidth. They are what my wife and I are both used to listening to so it is probably to be expected that they sound "the best". On the flip side of the coin the DX-9's are finicky bastards about placing, especially for high volume listening. Even though they are fairly massive they should still probably be about another 12" higher off the ground to make the most of what they have to offer to a sitting audience... the tweeters, especially, are very narrow in soundstage compared to the WTLC's and others, both horizontally and vertically, and need to be toed-in "just so" to make that sweet spot come alive for a lucky listener or two in just the right seats. The WTLC's on the other hand, seemed to suffer no such shortcoming, even when haphazardly placed in a cluttered living room in less than ideal conditions... they always seem to have a very broad soundstage that doesn't suddenly change as you stand up or sit down. Very pleasurable.

Notably the WTLC, while I tried to adjust the volume when I switched back and forth between speaker pairs, really sounded their best when my wife had to leave the room for a bit and I had the opportunity to really put some juice to them. With more wattage the WTLC overcame some of it's bass shortcomings, sounding tight and controlled with perhaps needing just a touch more on the bottom end to suite my likings (no, I never EQ'd them to see), but this was at a volume I knew my wife would not tolerate for day to day listening and my neighbors not even remotely that long

As they stand if they were to be my every day pair of speakers I would almost think about putting either a sub woofer into the mix or at least a bit of gentle EQ with perhaps a low end compressor to prevent clipping. If I had to choose between the two pair of speakers to play jazz music into a large, lively room it would easily be the WTLCs... If the teenage wannabe rap-band across the street was getting too drunk and too loud it would be open windows and the DX-9s I would use to crush them.

I'm tempted to take these apart and see if I can detect any tampering with the crossovers. I'm certain they need more listening and I still want to put them up against something in the roughly the same specs; my neighbor's 2-way Infinity books would be a nice comparison, in fact I hope to be able to take them to his house as his living room is larger and more "lively" than mine too so maybe that will make a positive difference as well.

Perhaps they DO need a full overhaul to restore them to the regal status thedelihaus suggests they deserve?

Will there be a "WTLC restoration redeux!" thread coming to a forum near you? What do YOU think? Time for a little more input from you, my new found friends. What would you do with these if they were yours?

 

Post by thedelihaus

Infinity's WTLC columns.

The WTLCs, a very rare Infinity tower speaker model,were offered in the early/mid 70s. One of the unique features of this speaker are the top-mounted Ohm-Walsh tweaters in their design- factory equipped. Others are the rear-firing tweeter (I suspect it's possibly hooked up out-of-phase) and twin woofers- one a forward facing woofer, one a downward firing woofer. i suspect the front firing is a bass-midbass driver, while the bottom is most likely voiced for more deep thump. Total driver count is 5- three tweeters, two woofers. Ports are twin- one rear, one upwards-mounted (at least on some models).

These Infinitys sound simply amazing, possessing a three dimensional and very accurate sound, and are very easy to position in a room, very adaptive and very forgiving of room abnormalitys.

The first time I heard these speakers, I was hooked. I immediately decided that I'd give up a good amount of my collection if offered these- the others would no longer cut it.

How'd they sound to me? I found the rich tight bass from the front-firing and bottom-firing woofers to be exactly to my liking- incredibly good, fast, accurate, but not at all boomy or muddy, never uncomfortably forward or overpowering, not a trace of sloppiness. The rear-mounted/firing tweeter really made these feel full-bodied and lively- they helped fill in the sound (reminiscent of the large DCM Timeframe 600s I've recently heard do), and the midrange and vocals, with that 8" front-firing woofer and tweeter (no midrange), really suprised me- very natural and coherent, no need for a midrange.

That top-mounted tweeter, looking like someone stuck a trumpet in the top of the box really did a great job with filling in the sound too- this addition qualified them to be a top-notch performer- easily put them in the league of the Allison CD-8s I also recently witnessed, played off approx. 65wpc of Sansui power at a 4 ohm load.

The room they were in- they were placed on a wood-laminate floor that's on top of a concrete slab, in a room with a mix of concrete and wood-framed walls with plaster on them, 4 waist-height windows, 2 high-mount windows, and a room length of approx 15" by 40" (studio apartment).the room, obviously, is a bit lively. The room was damped only by the 10 other soft-bodied visitors at my house- human torsos and denim and cotton clothing the only real damping around.

Now, I really liked the Allison CD 8s I recently heard, and the DCM Timewindows and Timeframe 600s. I'd be hard-pressed to choose any of them over the Infinitys however. I'm sure I liked the Infinitys better, much to my suprise.

Why so impressive? I'm guessing the monster Pioneer receiver's 120wpc behind them got them really singing. But there was more to it than just healthy amplification. The speaker itself was well designed.

I'd say these had all the benefits of a west coast speaker with none of the downsides- at least what I percieve as downsides.

Follow all the stereotypes, the generalities about the "east" vs. "west" coast sound, and disregard them when listening to these Infinitys. Yes, they are a ported speaker, and maybe they lean more to a west coaster, at least in design, but I never felt the WTLCs sounded like either category- they sounded like both- but only the good parts.

West-coast speakers are fun- crank 'em up and enjoy 'em like a good roller-coaster or a joy ride in a stolen car. But after a while, that ride becomes tiresome, physically taxing. suddenly, my ear finds that fun element to grow weary after extended listening. And I never feel the typical west coast sound is natural sounding- it always sounds heavily "produced" to me. Ray Charles doesn't sound soulful, Carmen McRae doesn't sound honest, Hank Williams doesn't ache. But David Lee Roth sounds coke-fueled and adrenalized.

As for the east coast speakers, speaking in general terms, I find them easy to listen to all day, and very natural and realistic in sound (as much as a box speaker can be). But although the tears may flow during beautiful passages sung by Nina Samone, while the smile may crack across my face during a joke in the banter of a Tom waits song, while my heart heaves and sighs at the ache in Lou Reed's anguished words of "Heroin", the blood doesn't start pumping wildly and excitedly when Lords of Acid, play, the brow and upper lip doesn't bead with sweat when Sonic Youth comes on, the pulse doesn't race when the Swans hit the turntable.

The Infinitys covered all of this beleivably however. Vocals were natural, real, honest. Instruments were "alive". Rocking tunes, well, outright ROCKED.

They sound like a well-behaved, yet robust, athletic, healthy and strong East-Coaster. An East coaster with cajones and machismo.

Infinitys are an iron fist in a velvet glove. Bruce Lee in a linen/viscous shirt and tweed smoking jacket. Ultimate yin and yang. Jeckyl and Hyde. Bruce Banner and the Incredible Hulk. Both personalities, without losing composure (or shredding the clothing).

The speakers in my collection I'd keep? My Boston Acoustics A150s and A200s, ADS L630s, of course my Dahlquist DQ-10s, but the rest could be let go- I'd miss them, but I could let them go.

As for other speakers I'd still persue? At one point I was looking for Polk SDAs, but no longer- I liked them very much, but didn't love them- good speakers for sure, and I admire Polks, but there's others I'd choose over them now. Which? I'd still pick up some ADS L1230s gladly, and of course AR 9s or 90s, if I had the room. Same for some Electrostats. DCM Timewindows are still being considered, so are Timeframes.

And now, I'd like these Infinitys as well. They were that impressive, that damn good.

 

Sounds like my vintage tube HH Scott 299-B (maybe 25-30wpc) might not be up to powering the WTLCs.


Thanks for the write ups!

 

I don't think I've ever heard these but they are from the same time period about 1974 as the Infinity Monitor speaker. The Monitor IIA was from 1975, both of these speakers were a little larger than the WTLC.
Pic of the IIA:

 

My speakers came in today. They sure look nice!

After they come back from the refoam man, I'll report on the sound quality.

 

I had some new back in 1976 and loved them. parted with them in 1980 and it was a decision I hate myself for! I scored a pair on ebay about a year ago. If you google image WTLC that is probably my speakers in front of a fireplace. I was very unhappy with their condition which was described as near mint or something. I would give them a 6 out of 10. I have a project of love on my hands now. they have aftermarket woofers and non functioning walsh tweeters. I hope your project went well, they are a speaker to seek out, a true classic. I am at a loss as what to do since the woofers have no crossover and were of different mass. I ran across someone who had a WTLC project on one of these forums but it was years ago. I just wanted to share that I am a good source for info on what is cosmetically original and not original with these speakers having seen them new.

 

I just picked up a pair of these on Craigslist after reading this thread. I am very happy with them, but just have them hooked up to a HT receiver for now in 2 channel mode. I can't find specs as to their efficiency. Any help would be appreciated in choosing an amplifier for these beautiful speakers. Thanks

 

Here is my experience with a pair of Infinity Monitor II speakers I picked up off CL. Infinity Monitor II speakers thoughts. | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

 

How did your rebuild work out?

 

Love the look of them.