I’ve always assumed the improvement in sound quality between the 2100 and the 3000 was due to the better (toroidal) transformer in the latter. It certainly isn’t just the fancy copper chassis. The 3000 just delivers a little more oomph with a lot more ease.
IDK, I've yet to experience a toroid-powered amp that doesn't sound a bit weak in the lowest octave. Maybe the Yamahas have exceptionally high quality toroids. My bet would be the SQ improvements you noted are attributable to some other difference(s) in the circuitry. I wouldn't be surprised if they chose toroids for the whole new line simply because that's what audiophiles have been led to believe is superior. Some interesting reading on toroids: SoundStage! Max dB - The High-End Mythology of the Toroidal Power Transformer (07/1998)
For what its worth, my As1100 took a while to break in. I found it quite shrill and lacking in bass out of the box. But showed great improvement once i decided to leave it turned on at all times. I feel it really smoothed out abd developed oomph after about 100hrs of playing time. I think this has been the case for a good total of people from what ive read on the internet. It may be an issue exclusive to the 1100. Either way, it sounds like heaven.
I had the same experience with mine, almost exactly, though it seemed to mostly develop its final sound around 50 hours. It seems every 1100 owner has a similar break-in experience -- bass improves and treble smooths out.
Exactly 100%. I was actually very disapointed on my first listen. But it was a case of straight outta the box, plugged in and record played. I remember breaking out in a cold sweat and wallowing in buyers regret. It was the first piece of good equipment id ever bought and Id saved for a while. I took a week or two until internet research and contacting yamaha that i came across the concept of a burn in period. Once i started leaving it on, the 'opening up' period was alarmimg. The difference was huge. The improvent in sound cant be understated. Ive had mine about 4 or five years now. It still blows me away. Man I love this amp.
This is a silly article in that he makes a blanket conclusion based on a single experiment using a headphone amp with a cramped enclosure. The reality is there are no hard-fast rules when it comes to transformer design type. It largely comes down to the quality of the build. There do exist plenty of cheap, off-the-shelf toroids, just as there exists expensive, esoteric EI core transformers. Many of the toroid-powered products I've owned have been noisy, though in many cases a product's circuit layout and grounding scheme is far more detrimental than the stray flux of whatever transformer was chosen. For example, the Yamaha amps with their EI core units are far quieter than the Toroid-powered Rogue amps I've owned. In the case of Yamaha, I don't believe they would employ a cheap toroid. I'm sure they're good and quiet, but whether they're a significant improvement over the current crop is doubtful. As far as noise is concerned, the current amps are practically silent anyway. IMO, that they made this change at least partly as a marketing initiative is not outside the realm of possibility. Like every other major AVR manufacturer, they have been guilty of fudging power specs in order to move their entry-level products, so on the whole, I must admit Yamaha is not the most forthright of brands. They do have the typical corporate goals to consider. Here's another good read on the topic of transformers (last paragraphs, p. 8 & p.9): https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0j-SQg1ovgQAwegFdMTO4v
Gryphon, T&A, darTZeel and others use toroidal transformers on their high end integrateds. These machines represent the pinnacle of modern, solid state audio equipment, and I’m guessing those manufacturers know what they’re doing.
I'm not going to argue whether those brands represent the pinnacle of SS design. I don't have ample experience with them, but one thing I know for certain is there exists some very over-priced gear out there. My arguments are simply that toroids are not always superior and that an EI frame transformer can be just as effective under the right circumstances. I'm questioning the practical advantage in the case of the Yamahas, since even their entry-level integrateds have a practically inaudible noise floor. If, however, the toroid is of significantly higher power (assuming it's not suffering losses from saturation caused by DC offset) than the EI transformer, then it could result in improved power-supply reserve and greater output under demanding conditions. So really, the questions that need to be asked are 1. Are these particular toroids capable of overcoming DC offset on the mains (which many homes suffer), and 2. are they a higher capacity than the outgoing EI transformers? They don't appear to be using off-the-shelf units so I suspect the answer to question 1 is a yes.
Why no tape loop, Yamaha? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Edit: I think they've added one. Thanks Yamaha for including me in the design brief.
I’m just glad they didn’t upgrade the 3000 more.. don’t feel an absolute need for the 3200 over my current 3000. Bit surprised, though. Thought they would upgrade it a bit more or do some design change, or something like that.
I still like my old P-2200 & PC2002m. Those were some great amps with heavy robust builds. Yamaha should have built the new ones from the old P and PC series designs. That was a solid 240w per channel RMS into 8 Ohms. It kind of excites me to see Yamaha making amps like the a-s2200 but the lower wpc just takes the fun out of it for me.
Now that is a glaring omission! edit: I just looked and it does have a tape loop, "line 2" is for both the 3000 and 3200
Come on guys. These Yamaha amp topologies have been discussed to death. There is a reason why Yamaha has opted for the floating circlotron design. It’s something they’ve been doing for 40 years now. This type of amplifier design has inherently low noise floor. Torpid or EI core, both will work excellent in a circlotron. I highly suspect the reason why Yamaha has switched to toroidals instead of potted EI is because it is much easier to oversee and manufacture the amps in bulk in Taiwan with the Tordial design. Not that it matters where it was manufactured but I believe the transformers were still being manufactured in Japan. Maybe the toroids still are.
That's a fake tape loop, just looks as one. Where's the tape monitor button to activate the loop? Nowhere. Page 12 of the manual: "If LINE 2 is selected, audio signals will not be output at the LINE 2 OUT jacks."
I must miss understand what a tape loop is? Why would you want the line out active if it selected? You record from the other inputs to the tape player via the line 2 out when it isn’t selected. What is a tape loop?
To hook an equalizer, tube buffer or similar processor. Originally intended to monitor the recording while recording it, provided the tape recorder has a third head, which reproduces the recording made just a fraction of a second ago by the second head.
Ok! I “think” I understand. A tape loop seems a pretty specialised function so I’m not surprised it’s not there. The lack of a tape out would have been an important oversight. Maybe I’m just being selfish? Thank you for the explanation.
