~$2500USD turntable/cartridge budget (yet another one of these threads)

Looking into the Well Tempered Labs Simplex because it is so intriguing. I keep reading great things about them.
The more and more research I do, the harder and harder it is to decide on a turntable at this price point.

 

Analysis paralysis... You really would be smart to go with the GR with a VM95ML. You'll thank me (and the others who have suggested it) later.

 

It’s irrelevant. You are not going to match a turntable to your room or really to your amp and speakers. Matching a cart to your phono stage is a pretty big deal but that can largely be accomplished by looking the specs, make sure you have the gain and loading required for the cart in question.

a turntable shouldn’t have a sound. The idea is you are listening to the faint electronic signal that is being generated from a stylus vibrating across bumps in a groove. The job of the table is to keep mechanical noises from that electronic signal, to be accurate in platter speed and to have razor sharp adjustments to hold the cartridge the best angle for operation. If you hear more bass or treble in one table over another, that can only be a reflection of how it is doing the jobs mentioned above. It will preform the same no matter your amp, speakers or room. Now if you have super high end and revealing equipment, it can expose the limitations or noise floor of a turntable but any place you are going for a demo of a $2,000 table is going to be connected to very nice stereo equipment. Any motor rumble would likely be more apparent in that demo than it would be at your house.

If you have a local shop, I would highly recommend buying from them vs an online retailer. It’s nice to have people if you run into trouble or need someone to mount a cart for you. But honestly, don’t worry about “the sound of the table”, be concerned about it being quiet and accurate. I’d say the thing you really need to demo would be the carts. That is far more subjective and dialed into your personal presences. The bad news there is you can’t really do that. It’s an exploration process and a lot of guessing. The sad reality is the more you spend, the better it will be with very few exceptions.

 

I recommend the VPI and the Technics - preferably a VPI Classic - but I guess the others will do. I have both and they are fantastic - I hear good things about the new Technics.

 

OP- You’re looking at the right ‘tables, and should be quite happy with whichever one you choose.

AKA, investigate further, but don’t stress.
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I think it's very cool you're looking at tables with different design philosophies. It's hard to go wrong at the price point you're looking at, so take your time and enjoy the journey. I do think it's worth checking out the tables in person so you get a hands on feel for them. FWIW, I think the Simplex is a fantastic table and almost bought one, but a deal came up on an RP6 and I 'd always wanted to give a Rega table a shot.

 

I’d like to make a slightly different suggestion than the preponderance of the weight set forth above . . . I would spend all or nearly all of your budget on your turntable and arm, and reserve only your pocket change for the phono cartridge. That is to say, purchase the very best turntable you can afford (I’d say second hand is the way to go to optimize this strategy, but I can understand why you want to stick with new) and then a cheap MM from Ortofon (the 2M blue) or AT (VM54ML) or the like.

As a general principle I believe (ever more so strongly with each passing year) that the the quality of the turntable and arm combination is of such prime concern, the cartridge is reduced almost to a mere triviality. This is NOT to say, on balance, that more expensive cartridges don't sound better than cheaper ones (they do, on balance), but that superb turntables make cheap cartridges sound FANTASTIC. And fantastic cartridges on cheap turntables sound blah. I'm going to choose a $3800 turntable with a $200 cartridge over a $2500 turntable with a $1500 cartridge every day of the week. It is not even close.

With that being said, I would discount some of your other considerations. The first being that you insist on a turntable with low motor noise. At this price point, this should go without saying. Any turntable above a "budget" rig should generally have no audible motor noise whatsoever. If it does, it is simply faulty. Some turntables have blacker backgrounds than others, but that should be owing to decisions inherent in the designs chosen rather than excessive motor noise or transmission through the playback chain (think inertness of the platter and plinth - if that's your thing -, how the design manages vibrational energy transmission and rejection, etc.). In my experience, the blacker, more quiet backgrounds tend to be associated with the high mass, inert slab styles of table. Think VPI, the mid-to-high end Project and Music Hall designs. If this is your groove, these are the tables you may lean towards. To my ears, this design brief trades away a bit of excitement and "pop" for the privilege. YMMV.

In my opinion, at this price point, I don't know that I would be concerned with the ability to change out your interconnect cables. It seems to me, that way madness lies. Can cables make a difference? Of course they can. Should we expect a competent, relatively neutral and functional tonearm wire on a $2500 turntable? double sure. For my money, the best sounding turntable should be the goal. Whether the tonearm cables are captured seems of tertiary importance.

Of the brands you are considering, I have owned VPI, Rega, and heard a Well Tempered (the Classic) in my system. I have heard the Clearaudio's and Sota's in shops (but never in my system). I have not liked the sound of the VPI's, Clearaudio's or Sota's I have heard. I WISH I could have a Technics in my room just to try. Same with one of those vintage rehabbed Thorens. I haven't heard the others. For my money, I would turn the couch cushions over for the Rega P8 (I have owned the 3, 25, and 9), and strap it to a $200 cartridge (but NOT a $200 Rega cartridge). Likewise, the new Thorens 1600 (at $3000) seems to be sympathetic with my pathos. But I have not heard it.

As I understand it, the phono stage you have on the way is reputed to be absolutely superb.

In any event, my turntable is, arguably, the most polarizing piece of audio equipment ever marketed. So, you have to take that into account when you consider my opinions.

 

I appreciate the well thought out response, and addressing my considerations. My experience with cheaper tables has lead to those preferences of mine, but you make valid points on motor noise and interconnect cables. From the start I had been going for the best turntable and cartridge I can buy, and as you pointed out this means I'll be compromising on the turntable/tonearm. I'm easily swayed when it comes to shiny new purchases so I need to discipline myself into taking everything into consideration before making an impulse buy. I'm glad I saw your post before I made any purchases.

My budget right now is $2500, but I think I'm going to save up a little more so I can get something like a Rega P8 w/cheaper cart that you and others have recommended. I know increasing budget will open my options up to other turntables/tonearms as well.

A few questions for you:
What is your opinion on the Well Tempered Classic? I've been strongly considering one of the newer models.
What turntable do you own, what about it do you like, and what makes it a polarizing piece of equipment?

 

I’m very happy with my Concept Wood, Satisfy Black and opted for the well matched Hana SL cartridge. list price on this was about your budget but working through a local dealer could get you under list price. I would put it up against any of the others you mentioned. I would suggest going with the one you like the look and feel of. They are all decent rigs.

 

Actually, I think the Well Tempered turntable is really great. However, the one you are considering I have not heard. And it looks somewhat less substantial than the one I have heard. The WT tables I’ve heard are very clear and have really great rhythm and pace, but the balance strikes me as just a bit on the lighter side. That being said, I like the sound better than VPA, Sota and Clear Audio. But I can't comment on the Amadeus.

I have a "Klimax" level Linn LP 12 and an "Akurate" level LP12. These I love, but they are polarizing because they need to be set up correctly to sound good, and many people don't go for that (or even believe in it), which is fair. The LP12 is not for the easily anxious, who will worry that it is not giving its best because its not set up properly, etc. Some consider it the most overrated table ever designed. Others cannot imagine life with anything else. One can purchase the basic deck and arm combo for about $4000, and then with various upgrades (subchassis, arm, power supply) you can quickly reach almost $20k.

I have owned 4 or 5 LP12’s over the last 25 years. I have dabbled in several alternatives but have always come back to it. Nothing else I have heard does quite what it does. YMMV. Which is not to say that there are probably MANY worthy alternatives that I would love just as much (or better). I just haven’t heard them all. I am VERY curious to hear tables in MY system from Technics, Luxman, Dr. Feikert and a few of the direct drive tables that are all the rage now, including those fancy vintage and rehab (and reissue) Thorens. Tbh, the new Thorens 1600 would seem to be a fantastic table at $3000.

 

Now I would not buy anything from this list with single arm, without ability to swap carts easy. And arms without azimuth adjustments... no!
Which leaves Technics and Analogworks)). Add to it Hana SL or even AT ART9 for a little extra - and you got a killer combo...

 

An in-store demo has limits. It can give you some ideas about the construction of the TT, and how fiddly it is, but not the same as having it at home. While something might sound great at the dealer, it might be more hassle than the end user wants on a day to day basis at home.

Many people like fiddly turntables. I am not one of those people.

 

Neither am I which is why, when it came down to it, the *only* turntable choice for me was a Technics and, in their line, only the GR was suitable. I knew it would be easy to set-up and how it worked because I'd owned manual tables in the past.

I'd prefer to look at gear and play with it before buying but for the last 20 years, there is nothing closer than at least 130 miles and that shop is more focused on AV installations. Next closest places are 250 or so miles. That means, if I buy something, it's via mail/UPS. So a free shipping/return policy is paramount for me. That said, I haven't bought anything other than my 1210GR and a couple cartridges for years. I wouldn't mind seeing what else is out there in the way of speakers but unless I moved near a heavily populated area, that's out.

 

Your source components perform exactly the same in any system or room. They don’t offer a different output dependent on the amp, speakers or room they are working with. Wow/flutter, speed control and resonance are the things you evaluate and they are always consistent. If a table sounds good in a shop and not in your home, it’s only because your system wasn’t as good as the one in the shop. If a table were to sound good in a live demo and you found it disappointing at home, it’s because your home system is much more revealing than what was in the shop and revealed some noise the demo did not. That sounds like a a fairly impossible scenario to me. I doubt you would be taken with a bad turntable in a bad system enough to bring it home and then be disappointed when you connected to your personal reference system.

Am I missing something? Synergy with a phonostage and the cart is certainly a thing but I can’t think of why a live demo wouldn’t be the best option or could be somehow misleading.