Have ordered a passive attenuator hand made in HK with no circuit board, only direct wire soldered. I will have it tomorrow. It will replace Sys and allow me horixontal biamping. SMD Dact type Stepped attenuator Passive Preamplifier | eBay
Received it but regretfully just came back from a week surfing our cold waters and have temporarily loss hearing in the left hear so cannot comment on it yet.
As the water has released my left ear to some extend, somerhing obvious came out. Horizontal biamping is not what i was hoping for. Yes soundstage increased but complex music like a symphony does not come out with enough dynamics. Vertical biamping with biwiring on the other hand works perfectly. Bridged monoblock setting beats stereo on my amps. Not sure if horixontsl biamping with two identical outputs controlled by the attenuator was something that uou had in mind.
I am running an active 4way setup with dsp. It could be an impedance mismatch with the passive, but I would prefer not to bog down this thread with that, feel free to pm me if you needed help exploring that.
I was considering buying his 5 input line selector to see if it betters my Niles AXP-1. I've tried a couple of other units, including the Schiit Sys, but that killed the tube dynamics from my tube phono stage and CD player. The Niles doesn't do that at all. Are you satisfied with the build quality?
Yes I am. That said the quality of the Dact copy might reveal itself over time. Otherwise, it seems as transparent and noiseless as it gets.
jeez, the schiit passive use a cheap pot. passive pre amps are basically only a attenuator combined with ins and outs of course the Khozmo will be a upgrade. cheap pots are definitely not as good as good quality stepped attenuator. khozmo, dact, goldpoint would all be a upgrade vs the schiit passive pre. good stepped attenuator will always be a upgrade vs pots (unless you can grab a alps gold pot) going from a cheap alps blue to a TKD pots was quite revelatory for my ears in my pass b1. be aware of the problems that can arise from using a passive vs a buffer or active pre amp, make sure to understand the draw backs of each solution and go from there. but yes of course going from a cheap schiit pots to a quality stepped attenuator will be audible.
I believe that the Saga and Freya use a stepped relay, not a “cheap pot”. I already have the Saga S and I think the question is how much better is the Khozmo, and it sounds like you think it’s probably substantial. Have you had a chance to hear either the Khozmo or the Saga?
oh wow, my bad. i thought the schiit saga used a pott. he schiit saga do use a stepped attenuattor nope never heard the khozmo nor the saga. they both use what looks like well designed stepped attenuator even in passive mode, the schiit will have more "stuff" (switches, relays) in the signal path. its possible a pure passive like the khozmo or goldpoints ect would yield some improvements but now I do agree with others, it might not be such a huge upgrade going from the saga to khozmo. since you use a active 4 way which i suspect is a DIY desing? why not build a pass lab B-1 pre-amp and put a khozmo stepped attenuator in it?
I wonder how any of these modern offerings would compare to a popular passive from yesteryear...like the McCormack TLC-1?
The speakers are a diy OB, but I I’m not sure if I need another project right now. You do bring up my one complaint with the Saga, there is power and presumably a more complicated circuit. I could have the remote version of the Khozmo and run it off of a battery psu, something I am fond of doing when possible, and still have a purist passive preamp.
I built a passive 6 input pre this spring using a wood box I found at Target for the housing. After reading tons of articles on the pot subject, I decided to go with a 10k. Frank recommended a 50K, so I told him I'm starting at the bottom and working my way up. Passives can be great if the source has plenty of drive current. FM tuners seem to come thru fine as do CD players. A powered preamp can make some of the differences less of an issue. The amplifier can also play a huge role on how things turn out. Its the impedance game at work here. If I were to build another one there are a couple of things I would do different. First I would buy one of those powered input boards that select the device by a relay. Yes, I know this portion will need power, but so what. I've been eyeing up a couple of models on the auction site that are 4 inputs and come with a selector switch and 4 LEDs to indicate which input is active. The other thing is to go with an ALPS pot, going the Frank route using a 50k. There certainly isn't any reason that this pre couldn't have a tape out too, and 2 sets of outputs for 2 amplifiers (which I like to use in all of my stereo systems).
The Schiit in passive mode is no more complex than the Khozmo. The only theoretical disadvantage is the power supply housed in the same case.
Neutrik phono sockets, which that product says they use, are around $3 each in 100 off (well, UKP 1.96 plus 20% tax). There are 14 on the rear panel, so $42 for the rear panel sockets, before you start with the other parts. But even if the parts are actually Chinese knock-off's the price is cheap enough - well not counting the rather expensive shipping, plus import tax. The guy's eBay feedback seems solid. I'd be interested in what it sounds like when it arrives!
FWIW I use an LDR (Light Depended Resistor) type passive pre from Tortuga Audio . Mine is actually an earlier generation product, built from DIY parts that they sell. The latest generation "e-pot" comprises a plug and play with a piggy back board that is either LDR, or discrete switched resistor, both of them 100 step. Electronic Stepped Attenuator | ePot.V3 Max . You can also add tube or jFET buffers, if that is what you prefer when added to a passive pre. They are pricier than a Khozmo (which I've seriously considered off and on) but sonically the Torguga stuff is hard to beat.
I have browsed the Tortuga site many times. Their products look interesting for sure, but not sure if if the have an off the shelf solution that’s in my price range right now. I could probably hold tight if it is that good though. I am strangely drawn to the Khozmo for its lack of any sort of power in the unit, it seems to be an advantage that the Tortuga does not offer. If I were to replace my Saga it would likely because I am being a bit ocd about the power supply built into it’s box. That said the Tortuga approach is definitely intriguing.
I have a couple of Tortuga Audio's early boards. They are very nice. If you can DIY, and your OB speakers suggest that you can, their DIY parts can be very affordable compared to their finished products.
If you look on i think Audiogon, there were several for sale not long ago when i was looking for mine. Replacing with powerless, bufferless units it seems. Even used there were still $$$ but that is true for many things like a real Danish DACT part.
The dual mono Khozmo's design resembles my McCormack Micro Line Drive(which has both active and passive outputs). Looks like a great deal for the price.
He’s really doing himself a disfavor by not have the updated pictures he sent me today via email. Don’t tell any of the guys on the SHF, but I buy some audio equipment based on which looks the best
Yes that is still an option. I see the appeal of that too, but the single stereo pot is so much more convenient.
I’m about ready to pull the trigger on my second Khozmo. My OG Saga could be headed for the test bench.
