Adventures in Beatles Vinyl Collecting: Comments Welcome

This forum is kind of like a seminar in Beatles vinyl collecting. I have learned an AMAZING amount from this board, and one of the most important lessons I've gleaned is this: don't absolutely count on upcoming Beatles CD remasters (or remixes) for definitive versions. Or, when in doubt, go vinyl. So, I've gone vinyl in a big way, on the assumption that IF the forthcoming remasters (remixes) are lacking, serious Beatle fans will come to realize that their last/best chances on anything close to definitive may rest with the ever-decreasing world supply of original Beatles vinyl.

On the Beatles "mono front" I am absolutely secure, having gotten a mint set of the "Beatles Mono Collection" (UK Red Box) In fact, an email I just received from a very reputable UK purveyor of rare vinyl is this: his store has not seen a set IN YEARS; European collectors REALLY want sets; don't sell!

On the "singles" front I am also set: a complete, 26-record, 45rpm vinyl set of the "Beatles Singles Collection." Absolutely MINT, and only $75.00!!! On the Ep front I am very happy with my Beatles CD "Ep Collection." I bought this after reading the reports on this from forum members. You were all ABSOLUTELY right. Beautiful and worth every penny! No vinyl really needed in the Ep case.

The problem is Beatles stereo! Here, having appraised the collective wisdom of forum members, I have secured the following items (in addition to a Mint UK "Beatles Collection" Blue Box for "casual" listening purposes). These have not yet been purchased, but all are on hold with very good UK vinyl specialists, who I always put through a veritable inquisition BEFORE I buy.

On hold (all are original issues in roughly "EX" condition):

1). "Die Beatles," German Hor Zu, SHZE 117;
2). "With the Beatles," German Odeon first press stereo issue, red and gold label;
3). "Yeah Yeah Yeah" (German version of "Hard Day's Night"), German Odeon first press stereo issue, red and gold label;
4). "Beatles for Sale," original Parlophone, Yellow and Black label stereo in gorgeous condition;
5). "Revolver," (this and BFS are the REALLY expensive ones because of their rarity in anything resembling really fine condition!!), Yellow and Black stereo, first matrix number (extremely fine copy);
6). "Abbey Road," Dark Apple Label, 1969.

On other titles I have very good leads.

Any comments from owners of these particular pressings? I have not ever heard an original German Beatles pressing (either Hor Zu or Odeon), but they seem to have very good "sonic reputations." The UK dealer from whom I am buying the Odeons says he likes the stereo German Odeons slightly better than the original stereo UK Parlophones, though he adds that he prefers early Beatles in mono mixes.

He also made the interesting comment that he is mystified by American vinyl grading and has been less than happy with U.S. dealers whose wares he couldn't inspect first-hand before purchase. He wondered what "excellent+++++" means (I guess, excellent plus plus plus plus plus) and couldn't wrap his mind around "very good--" (or, very good minus minus). In the later case he though that should really be "good."

At any rate, comments from those who have these pressings, particularly the German Odeon red and gold labels (which really do look cool, I must say!!) will be greatly appreciated. As I say, they are on hold and NOT yet paid for.

Oh, are there any other female Beatles collectors on the forum? It seems that almost all of you are men. Why is this? Is collecting a "male" preserve? Is cleaning and caring for vinyl akin to washing a vintage car over and over again? Meaning, something that it seems guys have a natural "bent" for? Back when I was seriously collecting vintage jazz, I knew not ONE OTHER serious female collector of vintage jazz.

 

Interesting post drlep. I know what you mean about getting your hands on the vinyl before it seemingly disappears off the face of the planet.

I have a fairly big Beatles collection which (on vinyl) includes:

- BC13 LP box set (2 of these!)
- MFSL LP box set
- Complete set (24) of 7" singles - 1976 reissue series in green sleeves
- UK Singles box from 1982
- UK EP box from 1981

- Various UK Parlophone 'one box' late 1960s reissues
- Various UK Parlophone 'two box' early-mid 1970s reissues
- Various UK Parlophone 'two box' late 70s Factory Sample reissues

- French-pressed White Album & Abbey Road (c 1973; French Apple LP's in UK sleeves)

- Numbered UK White Album #289615 (late 1970s reissue, possibly taken from an original BC13 set but can't be certain! Light Green Apple label)

- The whole set of UK albums from the late 80s/early 90s DMM series

- All the UK compilation albums ever released up to and including "1", including coloured vinyl variations of the Red & Blue, yellow vinyl pressing of YS Songtrack

- All US Capitol LP's from Meet The Beatles through to the US version of Revolver, including several different versions (label variations) of the same LP, eg. Meet The Beatles on '71 Apple and '76 orange Capitol.

- US versions of Rock n Roll Music, Rarities and Magical Mystery Tour (early 70s Apple reissue)

- Complete set of US Capitol reissues of British catalogue from 1995

- Various pressings (mostly late 60s or 70s reissues) from European countries, including: GERMANY, ITALY & GREECE

- On the CD front, aside from the standard CD albums and singles that have come out, I have a number of limited editions releases (e.g. White Album 30th, CD singles box set, CD EP box set, various promos - Red/Blue, Anthologies, etc)

I don't have any German originals but I do have some nice reissues from the late 60s and early 70s which sound fantastic. Also have a nice original set of red & blue LP's which sound incredible - far better than the UK versions!

A major omission from my catalogue is Japanese pressings - I don't own one! I daren't start otherwise I won't stop

The one set that has eluded all these years is the Mono Collection UK LP box. I have seen a few around but BIG money is being asked for these - they seem more available in the US than here in the UK!

There is a set going for auction on ebay (and a reasonable asking price, circa $500) at the moment but I won't be bidding - unfortunately. The problem would be the cost of shipping it to the UK and the tax/duty charges the boys at Her Majesty's Customs & Excise will hammer me for!

I'm glad you're enjoying collecting your vinyl - a couple of VERY good Beatles dealers in the UK are (you may know them already):

www.mtmglobal.com (More Than Music)

www.goodhumour.co.uk (Good Humour)


I've got to the point now where I probably won't be buying much more Beatles vinyl, although that Mono set I will keep hunting around for!

Happy collecting.

Cheers

Kipper

 

Steve and Kipper,

Thanks for the responses. Steve, the "Die Beatles" Hor Zu disc is an original and I am VERY excited about this one. I know there is a German Apple repress, but I wanted an original pressing and not a reissue. Your comments have me almost salivating (though maybe it is the roast chicken in the oven). And of course, that "Beatles For Sale" UK origninal stereo!!!!

Kipper, as for the "Mono Collection" currently on Ebay for $500.00? Are you SURE that even with the duties the set won't STILL Be a lot less than what most collectors have had to pay? This is SO rare. I've had things shipped from UK to Massachusetts (one of the original 13!) and the cost hasn't been TOO bad. Were I you I'd think about it again and at least get an estimate from the seller on shipping. One of the UK dealers I'm buying from has said he has NEVER in his years of business run across this set though, he also added, they are ALWAYS looking for it. This Ebay seller really pulled his opening bid and reserve prices down, too. So I think this may go for a comparative song. This set COULD have your name on it!

Happy hunting all this is too, I must confess, though being in the States makes it a bit difficult. Luckily the UK dealers I've bought from have been absolutely right on in their evaluations and fair in their prices, so I have never felt I got less than a very good deal.

Happy hunting indeed!

 

Uh oh...sounds like you're hooked! Wish I could offer something about German pressings, but all my LPs are original British and Japanese EAS series pressings...and a UK blue box that I never seem to get around to playing that much. I do recall Steve and Tom Port commenting that early German pressings of the White Album were best due to the Neumann cutting system they used. Apparently, the White Album is tricky to cut. If you're seeking the true first UK pressing of Abbey Road, make sure the Apple logo on the back cover is out of alignment with the song titles...2nd pressing corrected this.

 

Don't overlook the German Magical Mystery Tour vinyl, on Apple.

All true stereo and great sound.

One shouldn't set you back too far. Just picked up a mint copy (which sounds incredible) for $35.00, recently.

 

Man do I regret dumping all my Beatles's Mo-Fi's, Japanese, German and British pressings! Could have made a killing here on the forum. Oh well. I had them all...

 

Kevin: very good++, or perhaps even excellent-, point!!! It has actually taken me a bit of time to do the "quality" translation and a few questions to get a sense of what "excellent" really means. As one dealer explained, "excellent" is sort of the "catch all" British designation and he advised to ask "HOW excellent?" or, "WHAT does excellent really mean?" Beatles collecting (at which I am a relative novice) definitely is a fascinating+++ experience.

This same dealer also told me that in the not-too-distant past a Japanese collector paid around 13,000 pounds sterling at auction for a stereo, Parlophone black/gold label "Please Please Me"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am neither that crazy OR that rich.

My interest is the best sound, not THE rarest vinyl. Although, I DO know where to get a mono black and gold Parlophone "Please Please Me" (with the Dick James publishing credits) for around 700 pounds. But I swear, I WILL NOT BUY THIS!!!!!

Everyone repeat after me: I WILL NOT BUY THIS!!!!!

 

Yep, there's tons of "excellent" vinyl in the UK. At first, I just bought and waited to see what came. It's all subjective. Over time, I was able to weed out the best graders...which is the same I've done with domestic dealers I purchase through via mail-order. The best way to "test the waters" is to first buy lower-priced items to get a feel for a particular dealers grading standards. I eventually narrowed down the best dealers and now purchase exclusively through about a half-dozen...a few in the U.S. and a few in the UK. It takes time and money, but it's the best way. As a benefit, by being a frequent customer, dealers will sometimes give you dibs on better items. I've struck up some nice friendships with some dealers over the years, and learned a great deal in the process. Most dealers in the UK grade according to the standards set forth in Record Collector Magazine...pretty much the equivalent of our Goldmine Magazine. I've found the true definition of excellent from conservative UK dealers to be just a slight touch off our near mint, and the near mint grade to be the same...and I'd consider myself to be very conservative. Remember, finding quality UK vinyl is hard...there were far fewer copies pressed than here in the U.S. Still, it's out there, you just have to be patient. Weed out the sloppy graders, find your best sources, and stick with 'em...then just wait until they offer what you're looking for. That's exactly how I've gotten all my LPs...from the same handful of folks. If your looking for any audiophile pressings, go to Tom Port or the guys at Red Trumpet...both are great and will treat you right.

 

Thanks drlep - I'm keeping my eye on a lovely Mint Mono Collection box (the red version - that's the one I really want!). The seller is in Canada- have emailed, asking for shipping costs. Bidding at the moment is around $600. It's not so much the shipping cost but the UK Customs & Excise charges that will hurt

 

What do you think would be a fair price to offer for an original German pressing of "The White Album"? It is rated, condition-wise, in "American" terms as Mint- with all the enclosures. Cover is embossed with the number...It is not offered by auction, but by a U.S. purveyor of rare vinyl who asks for your bid (with the U.K. dealers who have had TRULY RARE items, it is more like "what is your offer on this?").

There is one VERY GOOD and reputable British dealer I've bought from who has copy #41 of "The White Album" and he will take offers. And it is in very good condition. But I think I'll go for the German because if Steve and Tom Port say it sounds really good, than you KNOW it sounds really good!

Kipper, good luck on the "Mono Collection." Yeah, The Red Box is THE way to go! I will NEVER sell mine. As a U.K. dealer emailed me yesterday: not only is it a great set musically, but it was a great investment on my part. He assured me that I never want to sell it.

 

The German pressings I own of the Red & Blue are 1973 originals on the German Apple label - catalogue numbers 1C188-05307/8 and 1C188-05309/10 respectively.

I picked these beauties up for a silly price (£15 ~ $20 each!) from a guy who worked in the trade and had been given them by a friend who worked at EMI-Electrola in Germany circa 1974. He had put them away in 1974 and NEVER played them! When these things arrived in the post, I couldn't believe the incredible condition they were in - they were like BRAND NEW!

I was practially drooling all over them and boy, when I played them they sounded absolutely fantastic. I also got MINT & UNPLAYED copies of some other German Beatles LP's from the early 70s off this guy too - I took all the ones he had and he only wanted £10-12 (~$15) each for most of them! They were all from the same batch that his German friend had sent him back in 1974! Inside the red album there was even an EMI-Electrola compliments slip!

Definitely one of the great Beatles vinyl bargains I've been lucky enough to take advantage of

 

That'll be Greg Vandike then?

 

Yeah, it's Greg. How'd you know?

 

Yeah...he's got some rare stuff. Funny how we all know him, eh?!

 

I've been most fortunate over the years in collecting the best-sounding Beatles LPs. For example, while coming home from college, I stumbled onto a batch of the German all-true-stereo pressing of "Magical Mystery Tour". I bought 2 of them and have never forgotten the sonic revelation of hearing all of side 2's tracks in true stereo! It wasn't until I graduated high school in 1975 that a discovered the superior sonics of the UK pressings when a local Tower Records played the British stereo version of "A Hard Day's Night" and I heard all of the stereo cuts from the movie side of the album---absolutely floored me. I ultimately bought all of the UK pressings of their entire original catalog in the blue LP box set back in 1980. I also have the Japanese box set as well, along with UK and Japanese pressings of the Red and Blue albums. I consider myself a very fortunate man in regards to my collection of Beatle LPs. I also have the 1976 UK singles and EP box sets along with the UK black mono LP box set, so what I have can be considered an embarrassment of riches that I have treasured for the past 27 years!
I also have the MFSL box set for comparison and listening pleasure!

 

That's a secret my friend

Seriously, I haven't bought that much from Greg although he does have some good stuff, just not the biggest selection. I do tend to buy mainly from Alan (Good Humour) or Mike (More Than Music).

 

Just wait a little and the common ones with the Euros symbol will suffice.

 

Drlep, I've gotta confess to being a "mint freak" when it comes to my vinyl. In my experiences buying from Europe (most all on ebay from dealers with excellent feedback) it seems the lighting must be very bad on that side of the Atlantic. Most LP's described as "Mint" or "M-" arrive in VG+ shape with sleeve scuffs and more than a few light scratches.

Have I just had a run of bad luck with overseas dealers or have others noticed the grading curve being more than a bit looser over there?

 

Axis:

None of my Beatles acquisitions have come from eBay, but rather from dealers at set prices. The guys I buy from don't really "do" eBay. I haven't had a problem and have in fact been VERY pleased. But one UK dealer did warn me that "EX" is the standard and he advised pushing dealers on the definition.

I guess my preference is to buy from stores/dealers that have been in business for years, rather than the sellers on eBay, as you can rack up great eBay feedback in a very short time, whereas some of these dealers/stores are proud of having spent years, even decades, building up reputations among collector.

But you raise a REALLY interesting point. I'd be curious to know what other forum members think about buying rare vinyl -- specifically Beatles -- through eBay. Something can seem so tantalizing (that maybe really isn't), especially when bidding wars erupt and you decide you CAN'T live without the auction item.

I like to buy when I don't feel pressured by competition from other bidders, esp. when you have to make a decision on the fly at the end of an auction.