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Am i hearing things ? replaced the original 43year old fuses in speakers

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Swann36, Apr 1, 2021.

  1. Swann36

    Swann36 A widower finding solace in music Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lincoln, UK
    your summary is both logical .. i did skim through the paper posted earlier ...which makes sense and comforting as i was beginning to wonder if i was starting to hear things that weren't there ... thanks for your contribution to the thread :edthumbs:
     
  2. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    110% SynersaywhatevertheF, simple as that. Any materials science professor is going to LTFAO at all the BS on that site.

    But feel free to support douchetoolshed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  3. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    MI
    I read examples of these simple changes that should make no difference, but does per the listener. It totally baffles me. In your example you where not expecting a change thus the 'it must sound better so it does' in ones brain do not exist here either. Hum.............
     
  4. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    MI
    Sorry, there is no evidence fuses internal element increase in resistance during aging.
     
  5. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    MI
    Reduced it what? .00001 ohm? Makes no difference at the speaker current used.
     
  6. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    There is a whole school of thought that the fuses make a difference; I never went down that road despite having a pretty serious system because (a) I'm extremely compulsive and that way lies madness, although (b) having never tried to sort through various audiophile fuses, I cannot deny the claims or refute them based on experience. I know that science tells us one thing, and listening sometimes tells us another. I know audiophiles that not only clean all the contacts on their wire, but then use various contact enhancers, another thing I have avoided. I am not a naysayer though-- my experience with an Acoustic Revive Schumann Resonance device taught me that even though there is no good explanation for it, I can hear a difference-- and in fact, prefer the system with it off (so much for expectation bias).
    I did replace the fuses in my Quad IIs simply because I broke one of the fuses-- the fuse holders don't fully protect the fuse-- it is sort of a cap on the fuse but put any pressure on the cap and the fuse breaks. I bought a Buss or other general quality fuse of the type one finds in a hardware store and I'm good. (It's my vintage system and isn't "tweaked"- in fact, I've tried to make that system as original to period as possible except for the arm and cartridge).
    Cables-- I do hear differences, so I'm of the view that they form part of a circuit with the power supply and the fuse is part of that circuit. Beyond that, I don't know. I do know that I'm not spending money on unobtanium outlets and wall plates even though I know many audiophiles who claim a benefit. I use a hospital grade Hubbell with a brass strap and unplated contacts that I get from Albert Porter for little more than the current Hubbell offerings. I guess it comes down to priorities at a certain point.
    To me, part of this hobby is gear-centric and fun for that reason, and part of it is music, which is in some ways, just as personal a choice as gear-- whatever spins your propeller is fine as long as it's legal, doesn't hurt you or anyone else and isn't a nuisance.
    Somewhere in all of this, there is common ground. Then there's the fringe stuff. I remember reading Enid Lumley back in the day and at the time, she had some pretty wacky ideas about system optimization, some of which have been accepted as more mainstream. I know you have to separate the science of electricity and circuitry from psychoacoustics but at a certain point, I'm not always sure that the measurable answer is the complete one.
    I don't practice voodoo and draw the line at swamis. Beyond that, knock yourself out! :)
     
    jonwoody, Doctor Fine and Swann36 like this.
  7. Nakamichi

    Nakamichi The iceage is coming....

    Location:
    St199nf
    I think its more likely that your hearing changes. Ears are strange things. My system can sound different aswell with nothing changed. You get blocked ears, wax all sorts can change the perception of sound.
     
    Doctor Fine likes this.
  8. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine I'm All Ears

    Location:
    Free Speech Land
    Found out what happened over at my house.
    The negative lead on the right speaker bank had come lose from vibration over the years.
    This wire connected two subs and a woofer on one side.
    So sometimes they were on, sometimes off.

    I wish home audio used speak-on connectors.
    Those existing connection nuts can only be screwed on so tight or they strip off the back of the crossover panel when you tighten them too far.
    I check them once a year but as I've been moving everything while re-tuning the speaker placement I guess that made a wire come loose.

    Sure sounded good last night.
    I spent three hours that afternoon running tests on phase at 5Hz intervals from 120Hz down to 15Hz.
    Got rid of some modes and nodes while tightening up the response.
    So far I like the improvement and that's what counts.

    It sounded good enough after dinner I sat there and played folk music stuff for another five hours.
    The lack of mud in the bottom end made the vocals much clearer than before.
    Could hear every syllable even words I never heard clearly before were right there.
    Very satisfying indeed.
     
    Nakamichi likes this.
  9. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur All is Good

    Location:
    PA
  10. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur All is Good

    Location:
    PA
    Incorrect

    A 1 A fuse has an R of 0.1 Ohm
    That could double or greater with use.
    That is equivalent to 50' of 12 AWG.

    How did you arrive at 0.00001 Ohm?
    The fuse is initially 0.1 Ohm?
    So after 43 years the R will increase 0.01% ?
    Not the verified 50% in 500 hours?

    Let P = 10 W, 4 Ohm load, 10' of 12 AWG (0.02 Ohm) and Fuse =0.1 Ohm
    I = sqrt(10/(4 + 0.1 + 0.02) = 2.43 A
    Cable/fuse loss = I^2 x R = 0.29 W
    If fuse goes from 0.1 to 0.2
    I = 2.37, loss 0.52 W, 80% increase

    Can it be heard? Let others decide. The fuse could become capacitive, if so tonal changes may be noticed.

    These numbers are for a fuse in service for hours, not decades
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  11. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur All is Good

    Location:
    PA
    Fuse R increased by > 50% in only ~450 hr.
    1 hr/off 0.25 hour, 1.5 A pulse
    A pulse is not unlike a dynamic music signal.
    Look at the curve slope, increasing steeply
    Might double by 600 hours.

    43 years x 52 weeks/year x 7 days/week x 2 hrs listening/day = 31,000+ hours
    vs. 450 hours with 50% increase.
    This is not opinion, this is fact.

    [​IMG]
     
    Ilusndweller likes this.
  12. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    MI
    I see the graphs, hard to believe but did not consider a pulse. I also do not believe music is like a pulse, it is simply constant varying frequency and amplitude with an RMS value. Speaker wire or any wire increases resistance with age too. How about house wiring?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  13. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur All is Good

    Location:
    PA
    Music is comprised of a bunch of sine waves, not a singular frequency (usually).

    A pulse is comprised of a series of sine waves
    A Fourier Series

    If you look at an FFT of music it has energy at every frequency.

    Music may be more demanding since it has a very high dynamic range.
    Both are moot, what counts is the current irregardless of wave form.
    P = I^2 R, the heat, the wear & tear
    The test was 1.5 A, on a 8 Ohm speaker <0.3 W

    A RMS value can only be applied to 1 frequency.
    Sine wave:
    RMS = sqrt [(peak^2)/2]
    simplified = peak/sqrt(2)
    If peak 100 V RMS = 70.7
    You actually integrate to get the mean/peak

    I am not saying buy $$$ fuses
    That is a personal choice
    I am saying a severely degraded fuse DOES impact the signal and MAY be heard if bad enough.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  14. regore beltomes

    regore beltomes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Helenville, WI
    I clean the wax out of my ears once a month. Likely a better improvement than cleaning fuses.
    Sometimes fuses get work hardened and will fail for no apparent reason. On my systems the
    speaker fuses are in the amp, not the speakers. 3AG 3A. fast blow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  15. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Lol!
    It’s funny the response sometimes about the popcorn.
    Our hobby is Ssoooooooo diverse that the opinions are really both entertaining and enlightening.
    I believe in gear burn in, while others have called me crazy. Fuses? Why not? It’s an open field when it comes to our gear. Cables? You bet! If one can hear a good difference then BAM, you got synergy! And I’m a true believer in that. I’ve been called stupid for powering a pair of $7500 speakers with a cheap Chinese Emotiva 125 w/ch amp, you know what? That cheap Chinese amp has blown away Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo, and Cambridge amps that threw up on the Mirages. The Onkyo amp got SO HOT that the steel cover bowed when cranking the music.
    Point is to have fun, the popcorn is me having fun watching the conversation, not dissin anyone.
    So again.......:-popcorn:
    Stay safe and enjoy our hobby!
    Beave
     
    16hz lover likes this.
  16. jonwoody

    jonwoody Tragically Unhip

    Location:
    Washington DC
    I tried fuses twice I got one of the original Synergistic fuses, black maybe, on sale stuck one in my preamp no difference. I later got a Hifi Tuning fuse, also on sale, stuck it in my Dac nice improvement. The preamp has a substantial power supply the Dac not so much. Beyond that I have no explanations for anything nor do I especially care, I tried it and moved on.
     
    The Beave likes this.
  17. mcbrion

    mcbrion Forum Resident


    I agree: some components there is no easily discernible change. Others there are. The PS Audio Power Plant shows the difference in fuses, but it's not an 'Oh-my-God" change. i think speakers will more likely show the change than other components.
    On the other hand, the Furutech fuses definitely throw the balance towards "leaner" no matter what component I've used them in, and it "bleached out" the sound (Almost as though the (upper) mid bass range "disappeared." Brass sounded...well, anemic. And the midbass is a very telling area of sound reproduction that tells you immediately about how "authoritative" any system sounds. So, the Furutech fuses do the opposite of pulling the sound towards what it would sound like in a good symphony hall with good bass (like the old Carnegie Hall). Furutech sounds more like Davies Hall in San Francisco in the last century (bleechh!) I'm told Davies sounds better these days, which can only be a good thing. That must mean it no longer sounds like a Furutech-infused component, although someone on here has a Furutech power cord and apparently it improved their system (I could believe that about the power cord. Just not the fuse).
    The "old" Davies Hall made the double bass section disappear, no matter where you sat in the hall. Just for kicks, one night, I took a friend - who was once a concert pianist - to the symphony and we sat in two different seats in different parts of the hall (I bought the tickets that way on purpose), and switched seats at intermission. He heard the exact same thing. After the concert, when I asked him what he thought of Davies "sonics," he said "Where'd the double bass section go? It just seemed like it disappeared." I later christened it "The Furutech sound." Lean.
     
    16hz lover likes this.
  18. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    The opposite of the Ventura Theater.
     
  19. 16hz lover

    16hz lover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cornelius, NC
    I'm glad there isn't a fuse in sight in my system.
     
  20. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Seeing your username, I figured you must have a very powerful system.

    "Amplification:
    Cinepro 3K6SE mk2- bridged down to 3 channels, 1400w x 3"

    Confirmed!
     
    16hz lover likes this.

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