Amp for B&W 803’s?

Greetings Audiophiliacs,

My first post, which I will be cross-posting to a few other forums.



I have the immense pleasure of designing/building my first true audiophile system. I will spare you the backstory. Point is, it is happening.



Aside from the million other questions I am researching related to moving coils, Roon, room correction,...I investing most of my time and money on the foundation: Preamp > Power Amp(s) > Speakers. The decision I am spending most of my time on relates to amplification.



Unfortunately, I do not live in a city where I can easily test hifi systems, so I have to rely on a lot of written research and reviews.



However, today, while traveling on business in Hong Kong, I stumbled on a B&W showroom. I was able to listen to a pair of 803 D3 speakers, which have been on my consideration list for a while (along with Focal Sopra No 2's). We listened to several CDs. The sound was the best I've ever experienced. A piano/cello piece was so incredibly quiet. Velvet blackness. Dark Side of the Moon's opening transition from "Speak to Me" to "Breathe" blew me away. The clarity and openness between the instruments was remarkable. Frankly, it was a near-spiritual experience.



Here is where it got interesting...



Afterwards, during lunch at a restaurant in the same building, the waiter saw my B&W catalog and said I should go to the “other” hifi showroom in the building. Why not? I headed back up the elevator to find a KEF showroom. I was able to listen to a pair of Reference 5 speakers, and then the $224k Muon. The source was a digital file through Roon. I know the R5s were powered by a Class D amp, not sure about the Muon.



Neither KEF setup approached the 803 D3's. Not even close. I know sound is subjective, but I played that same sequence from Dark Side of the Moon (which I've been listening to for 30 years) and I am telling you there was no comparison.



WTF? Why?



I think it must have been the amp. When I asked the B&W rep about the massive, black stereo power amp running the 803's, he laughed and said, "oh, it is only about 100 watts,...but it is pure class A." It was a Gryphon. I think it must have been an Antileon EVO Stereo.



Anyway, the moral to the story (for me, anyway) is that the advice I’ve often heard, “Amplifiers are far, far more important than speakers” was made very real for me this afternoon. It has scrambled my head. Whereas I had been looking for a high-quality, high-power, solid-state, stereo power amp, I have now fallen back down the rabbit hole and am reconsidering tubes, mono-blocks, and, God forbid, pure Class A amps.



What do I do?



(Caveat: all due respect to the seekers out there, I really do not want to be an audiophile who is constantly tearing my system apart and trading components up, out, and sideways. I know digital hardware will change, but with my Preamp>power amp(s)>speakers, I want to be extremely intentional about what I buy, and then not mess with it for a decade. The idea of “try something and if you don’t like it, trade it out” does not appeal to me.)



I love the B&W 803 D3. While I haven’t bought them yet, let’s pretend that the loudspeaker variable is held constant.



I am tied in a pretzel over the amp question. I am prepared to invest in a high-end analog pre-amp, mono-blocks, separate DAC, power conditioning, etc.. I’ve looked at PS Audio, McIntosh (tube and solid-state), Anthem, etc. I tried to look at Classe, but it appears their status as a company is too uncertain.



I am open to any, all advice or thoughts. Does my listening room experience today trigger a thought with anyone? What was it about that Gryphon Class A > B&W 803 sound? And how do I get it without spending $32k on an amp?



Thanks in advance

 

Hi;

I saw this post today, did you buy the 803 D3 speakers?

 

Bryston 4B3- an excellent amp to combine with the B&W 803's.

 

Hi,

Yes I think so

Are you happy with your setup as well?

 

Those speakers like lots of power. 100/wpc is borderline, at best. As a lesser cost alternative to the Bryston, I'd strongly consider the Parasound A21+ ($2,995).

 

I can imagine that.

Yes I'm, my 4BSST is a little bit older than your 4B3 but it sounds excellent and when combined with tube gear upstream it really makes the 804's sing.

 

Nice

I left the Linn path (except my streamer and preamplifier) and think we got a more musical experience in our livingroom
Can you explain little more about your tube gear?

 

Classe always worked well with B&W speakers.
A local dealer sold B&W for years and had many lines of amps, Classe wasn't the most expensive but always sounded the best with B&W, imo.

 

I heard the 800 -803 D3 series with Classe mono blocks and can absolutely agree, wonderful setup! The new Delta serie would be nice to have

 

The 800 series speakers are actually quite sensitive but they have a rather difficult impedance curve, so while they don’t need a particularly high power amplifier, it does need a high current amp capable of driving low impedance loads.

Personally I’d recommend the Accuphase E800, the pass labs XA100, the Audio Research Ref75se, A D’agostino Classic 2, a Naim NAP 300 or if you fancy going down the used route a Musical Fidelity AMS 50, a mk 1 Krell KSA 100 or a Conrad-Johnson premier 8a.

I’ve also heard the 802d3 and 805d3 with Devialet amps and they were excellent.

 

I've sent you a PM.

 

Not sure it is really scientific but if in youtube you look for videos with 800 serie B&W a lot of high end system seem to use Mcintosh or Classe.
I use Parasound and in my price range I think it is competitive.

 

I use a McIntosh MA 9000 integrated amp with 300 watts to drive my 803D3s. According to the amp’s meters it rarely puts out more than 10 watts, and that results in nearly painfulsound levels! Typically, with most classical music the output is 3 watts or so. Perhaps McIntosh is good at driving difficult loads, so it’s not working hard, but in my experience, 300 watts is overkill. (I bought the amp before I bought these speakers—wanted something that could drive any speakers I was likely to buy.)

EDIT: I just played a bit of Deep Purple’s “Made in Japan” with peaks at 93dB…30 watts according to the meters. My listening room is about 15’ deep and 20’ wide and the ceiling is angled from 8’ to 15’. Yeah, 300 watts is definitely overkill! Some day, I might get a Class A tube amp, and for virtually any listening 50-75 watts would be plenty, depending on how much current it provides.

 

I don’t know how but maybe you could get the chance to audition the Alluxity either the Stereo Amplifier Power One that I’m running or their mono blocks. You might be very impressed with build, current capability and specially the sound quality of these Danish amps.

 

Specs matter, your speakers are rated from 50W - 250W any amp that can drive them with in the posted range will work.

 

If you dont want to mess around with questions about power or handling difficult loads, and have some coin to spend, my experiences have shown that B&W sound best with amps rated higher than what the speakers are rated for. B&W like power and can play "scary loud and clean" given clean power. Look for amps that can double down (or close to it) in power and high instantaneous current also helps the low end.

Sanders Sound Systems - Magtech Amp

 

This is the way to go when getting the best out B&W speakers and especially when discussing about the 800 series.

 

I recently went on a testing tour with a friend who is looking at the same system as you.
We tried the B&W with 4 units and 3 were integrated
Nad M33
Hegel h390
Boulder 866
All sounded great for all in one box
Separates were the Bryston 4bs ..awesome
I don’t think ya can go wrong with any of the choices.
The Boulder is quite impressive