Antenna mounting, tell me about antenna mounting (and rotators)

So my brother *might* finally get around to mounting a large antenna I gave him (literally years ago ). He wants it mounted with a rotator in case of whatever-he lives near Altamont way east of San Francisco, so it’s more a case of really fine tuning direction, not transmitters in all different directions.

Mounting would be on a chimney of a 2-story house.

Any advice and hints and regrets, bring ‘em on!

edit: including where the heck to BUY a rotator-not finding much at Amazon, Best Buy, etc

 

Depends on a lot of factors. Step one is to plug in his address into Antennaweb or TV Fool and see how far, and how spread out, the transmitters are. If they are spread out more than, say, 45 degrees, a rotor *might* be necessary. If they are farther away from your antenna, but grouped more tightly together, you can buy a high gain antenna with a narrower reception pattern.

For reference, here's my experience. We live roughly ten miles away, as the crow flies, from where most TV antennas are in our area. They are spread out over a few miles, generally in the same direction. I bought a two-element antenna from Antennas Direct. I've forgotten exactly which model, but it cost around $80 and was roughly three feet tall by two feet wide. I attached it to the chimney of our ranch home, pointing roughly to the middle of the spread of transmitters. I used metal straps that ratcheted tight against the brick chimney, with a metal mast from Radio Shack. Also, the back of our house is heavily forested, as is our whole neighborhood, and the antenna was aimed directly at a wall of trees that was about 30 feet away. Even then, we received every channel from every transmitter crystal clear. We would get some artifacts in heavy rain and winds, but that was about it. Also, most importantly, I clamped a thick copper ground wire from the antenna mast to a dedicated ground rod directly beneath the antenna.

 

Oh! Yeah that WOULD be important!

 

Rather than 'rotate' your antenna (because sometimes it just looks right at a certain angle and who wants to mess with feng shui?) I call up the station and ask the Chief Engineer (who 9 times out of 10 is called "Skip", so just ask for Skip) to move their broadcasting tower.

It's a lot easier than getting of the couch and walking across the room (sometimes the entire length - whew!) and then manually rotating the antenna. Or climbing on the roof. Or your neighbors roof, or the kids treehouse. Or wherever you've mounted it.

"Skip" is generally very cooperative. "sure, sure" he'll chuckle, probably amused at his own lack of sensitivity for those in the 0.5mV/m range of their signal.

 

hire a professional

 

Yes, nothing wrong with hiring a professional especially on a multi story house.
That said, Channel Master has supplied awesome gear forever.

 

Most people don't need rotors. Generally it's easier to mount more than one antenna if you are trying to pick up from two different directions. Just use a coax splitter in reverse as a combiner.

 

He's hiring someone, the issue is whether to mess with a rotor or not. I'll point him to Channel Master though @Chris DeVoe has a very interesting idea.

 

Here's a pretty good explanation:

 

I'm not sure of the aversion to rotors, they actually perform a valuable function. I can't imagine a single reason not to use them.
I have a vacation home that utilizes OTA reception, (utilizing both Channel Master antenna & rotor). One thing that is apparent with digital reception is there is very little latitude for a weak or off access signal. It does not take much to have the image mute (digital cliff). Now granted this is involving reception from 40-50 miles away, but often when this occurs, a simple rotation of the antenna, a few degrees in either direction is enough to restore reception.

As for the multiple antenna theory, I would be more concerned of inducing "ghosting" in one or more of the stations being viewed.
Having another antenna pointing in an opposing direction actually defeats the side signal rejection properties that are critical in antenna design.

 

If you can mount somewhere other than the chimney, that would be preferable. Chimney mounts can take a toll on the chimney and chimney smoke can be corrosive. RE: grounding - the mast/mounts should be grounded, 8 gauge copper wire, I think, but the coaxial cable should have its own lightning arrester/ground; it looks similar to a coaxial cable grounding block. Use high quality RG-6 cable and keep the cable run as short as possible. And, if you do get a rotator, get your antenna elevation from the lower section of mast tubing, and use a short piece (2' or less) between the rotator and antenna. That'll help keep excessive load/torque off the rotator motor.

 

I can think of several.

The first is that you don't want to be putting an electric motor on a stick out in the weather you can possibly avoid it. Instead of just having a passive antenna signal coming back down, you have power and sensor lines going both up and down. Several more points of failure. Also, almost any electric motor is going to have slop, especially if it's attached to large metal array also in the wind.

Rotors are also terrible if your antenna is going to be hooked up to more than one television set. Say you're watching the hard to receive PBS signal from the Northeast, and your wife is wanting to watch NBC from the south. As soon as you hit the rotor to go to the PBS position, you screw up her reception. This is not a recipe for a happy marriage.

What you're probably actually doing is compensating for the slop of having a rotor in there in the first place. It moves around a couple of degrees in the wind, and you're having to get it back to where it should have been locked in the first place.

You're referring to multipath, because ghosting is not possible with a digital signal. If you have the two antennas at least two feet apart from each other vertically on the same post, it shouldn't be a problem.

What we're talking about here was standard practice for "Master Antenna Television Systems" the precursor to Cable TV, and they still exist at many cable head ends, although they more likely to be receiving their signals from the local stations via fiber these days.


Picture swiped from The Old CATV Equipment Museum - Main Index

In this picture, the top antenna is a standard UHF YAGI, the middle is a corner reflector UHF and the bottom one is a single channel VHF antenna, probably for VHF channel 4 (on the old analog television system, lower the channel the bigger the elements.)

Look at the video that I posted, which was created by a ham radio operator. They frequently combine multiple antennas, stacking them both vertically and horizontally to increase directionality. The important points is to make sure you use the exact same type of cable for both antennas, and the same length.

I built a couple of Master Antenna systems, one for BrandsMart, an electronics retailer in Kansas City, and one for Coach's, a sports bar. Coach's was at 103rd and Wornall road. Almost all of the signals were due north of them, but one was to the east. I put a standard all channel antenna aimed north, and supplemented it with a UHF corner reflector aimed east. I combined those two with a standard splitter running in reverse as a combiner.

Later I added two very high gain UHF antennas side by side combined with another splitter in order to pick up the high-definition signal from the NBC affiliate in Topeka.

 

I stand corrected.

 

Another important point is that the ground is actually part of the antenna system. You need a connection to the ground plane.

When looking for an antenna professional, ask a Ham - an amateur radio operator. They have a long tradition of being exceptionally helpful, and have either put large antennas up on their own home or desperately want to put large antennas up on their own home, and will usually know who will do a good job.

There is a good purpose for a rotor - TV signal DXing, when you're trying to receive signals from the furthest distance possible, just for the sheer fun of it. I have a 12 foot long super high gain UHF antenna in the attic of my garage, that I can't bear to throw away, but can't find a box large enough to ship and sell on eBay. I'm quite confident that if I put it on a rotor on top of the roof of my house, I could easily pick up Topeka TV stations from Kansas City.

 

Thank you very much.

 

TV signal DXing has been a fascination of mine since I was kid (strange, I know). The vacation home I mentioned is a DX'ers paradise, positioned on a peninsula 3 miles out into Lake Erie (Pt. Pelee). I receive a multitude of stations in every direction (hence the rotor) from Detroit to the NW, Toledo to the SW, Cleveland and other various Ohio stations to the SE, a smattering of Canadian stations to the N and NE, and all the way to Buffalo NY to the E.
And all this is accomplished with an antenna only rated for 100 miles.
Being on the lake on 3 sides has it's benefits in this regard.

 

I'm 59 and was the same way when I was a kid. I filled the attic of my childhood home with various antennas, including a pyramidal corner reflector that was two huge triangles of brass screen forming two faces of a pyramid, with a single element at the apex of the pyramid.

I have no idea what whoever bought the house after we moved out the thought when they looked in the attic.

That is awesome! I tried doing some of that from the roof my apartment in Chicago, but there were too many competing signals.

 

I got into reading the web site where I found that image - this morning's rabbit hole.

It got me to thinking of something I would like to experiment with - using a discarded 1 meter satellite dish as a high gain reflector for a UHF antenna.

 

I used to do this occasionally (as much as my location allowed) before the switch to ATSC. These days, I only move my antenna occasionally. Most transmitters are generally south but in some weather situations I need to peak to get every dB I can get for one of those stations. The other stations are north, and one is O.K. on the backside when I'm pointed south, but I need to rotate for the others.

 

If anyone is looking for an exceptional antenna, Blonder-Tongue has single-channel UHF and VHF antennas.

BTY-UHF-BB

BTY-LP-BB

Most digital TVs lack a signal level meter, forcing you to scan all channels every time you rotate. If you want to DX, it is worth finding an older ATSC tuner to give you a good meter.

 

BUT, would there be anything worth watching?

 

There might be a digital sub-channel on one of the channels that you can't find anywhere else.

Or maybe you really want the farm reports.

 

Here is another opportunity to spend valuable time on the internet (perhaps you already have seen this).

1950-60 Antennas

 

Here are a couple of sites you may take a look at. I purchased my Channel Master antenna & rotor from Solid Signal several years ago,
although I'm not sure if they still carry my particular model, Digital Advantage 100 (formerly CM-2020).
Their prices were very good and sold everything you needed to cover your install.

Best Outdoor TV Antennas - Amplified Outdoor Television Antennas
Digital Advantage HDTV Outdoor TV Antenna-Channel Master CM 2020 (CM2020)
TV Antennas - Outdoor - Solid Signal

 

I use a Winegard. The one I have is an older model, but was replaced with this one.
Platinum Series HD8200U | Winegard Company

It's an excellent antenna, and I use it to pull in Knoxville, which is 60+ miles away. The rotator(Channel Master) is a necessity, since I also like to watch Asheville, and the Tri-Cities(TN), and they are all in opposite directions from my location.