True actually...the ares is that good! had the ares and got a Venus only because a dude sold it to me 400ish dollars more than the price of a new ares. I could still live with the ares just fine. The OP could benefit from getting the ares and the Iris ddc instead. IME, the Iris ddc negates the need for so many dac upgrades.
Yesterday you started the thread saying you dislike it. Today you like it. Fine. Of course Fletcher Munson is a pseudonym, but what's your real name? What's your name? I guess it's Tony.
I liked the sound of the Pontus II, but as Denafrips was unable to resolve the micro-skipping issue, I moved along (and up). I now own an Aqua La Scala, which is (price wise) better compared with the Terminator.
The Ares 2 does nothing wrong in my system. I like it considerably more than the Chord Qutest, Topping D90, and Questyle CMA12. Most DACs I’ve tried sound dynamically compressed compared to the Ares. I’ve considered upgrading to a Pontus or Venus but I just can’t hear where the Ares is lacking. It does have a slight edge for a couple days if it gets powered off. even for a moment, but otherwise I have no complaints.
My Terminator II had a sudden improvement too, although it sounded great to start with. I know that Denafrips has a burn in process at the factory. It makes me wonder how they sound when they’re first assembled. Although I’ve been skeptical for years, I’m also enjoying the benefits from upgrading my streamer. I went from a Node to an Aries G1.1, playing with a U1 Mini and an Aries Femto in between.
@Fletcher Munson every once in a while a piece of gear comes along that challenges what you think you know about break-in. Glad to know the Pontus is coming good. I'm currently using a Chord Qutest and when the time comes to upgrade, the Pontus is first on my list, although after reading through this thread the Border Patrol DAC has piqued my curiosity as well.
I would definitely add an Audio Note varient to your list to try. I've never heard the real deal, but my kit DAC 2.1 has been living happily in my system for several years now. I think the AN-UK DAC 1.1x/ii is probably in the same price range as the Pontus. It's hard to find prices without contacting a dealer. You can also pay for the kit versions to be assembled for you, but the kit versions are different than the official. Still, there is some kind of magic in the general circuit design of the AN DACs, because mine sounds special. Pretty sure the only thing I'd replace it with is a real AN. andac Review
Firstly, wow, that’s one of hell of a good price for a Venus! Secondly, I sort of agree with you on buying the Iris DDC as it will surely “get the most” out of the Ares if you’re wanting to extract as much detail as you can from it, but I’m actually going to sell my Hermes DDC (model up from the Iris). I’m a Pontus II owner and I actually prefer the sound of it without the Hermes DDC. The Hermes improves detail and dynamics (the sound is clearer and a bit better at low volumes) but takes away some of the smoothness, musicality and magic that Pontus II has as a stand-alone DAC. I A/B’d with a friend the other day, and he gave a similar answer. He said the sound was “too digital” with the Hermes DDC and really loved the smoother and more natural sound without it. I haven’t heard the Ares II and it may sound wonderful with the Iris DDC, but I also don’t think you can go wrong with the Pontus II as a stand-alone DAC from my experience. Thankfully I now have zero desire to upgrade to a Venus or Terminator after my experience with the Hermes. My wallet is delighted! Of course, I realise system synergy is important in all of this and it’s going to be different for different people/systems. To my ears my amp sounds pretty dry, so the Pontus II as a stand-alone DAC is the perfect partner with its smooth and musical character. Add in the DDC and I’m ending up in a similar territory as before.
The Border Patrol also has my interest. Seeing as how they have a two week return policy I most likely would have auditioned it first and may have never gone Pontus. I forgot all about the BP after Guttenbegs review. Never heard of the tube they use in the unit. I wonder about availability on that one. The BP is made in the states which is a positive although Denafrips ha a US repair facility in Texas so it's a moot point. I ordered mine with two SPDIF inputs forgoing the BNC. There was a screw up in shipping and I got a standard unit. The Texas repair facility quickly changed the BNC out to a RCA for me.
After you introduce a DDC such as the Hermes into the chain, you will need to play around with the filters, oversampling, etc on a DAC, i.e. your DAC's settings prior to introduction of the DDC will need to be adjusted a bit...Did you try that before you concluded that the DDC made it "too digital"? If you were running foobar, etc , there are a few settings you may need to tweak there as well (buffer length, etc)....
My thanks to all offering constructive posts. It is sounding quite good after more break-in and a change of tubes in my Rogue RP-1 preamp to PSvanes.
Still getting a charge out of my own Ares II and Pontus II. They have revealed a lot about the signal chain. They have cleaned up my hearing and allowed me to discover what else in my setup is lacking. I own decent gear and would describe both as reference grade at their respective price points. Still feeling rock solid about my decision to purchase them. Not even interested in if there is something better. Other things to obsess over at this point...
I've tried all the settings on the Pontus II with the addition of the Hermes DDC yes (NOS/OS, Slow/Sharp filters), still the same conclusion. The sound is silkier and smoother without the DDC but cleaner and more detailed with.
I have a basic first run Pontus running into a neutral integrated (Belles Aria) and the sound is sublime. I had the Border Patrol dac and even rolled the tube rectifier with a vintage Brimar tube, the BP was OK and probably had a more analog sound (maybe) and a little better soundstage but those slight improvements came with more distortion overall to the sound. I had them both at one time and ended up preferring the Pontus.
How is the Hermes connected to the Pontus? I understand there's a myriad of choices i.e. I2s, Coax, AES, Toslink, etc...
+1. I’m curious about adding a DDC to take advantage of I2S with my Terminator. I’d be comparing against USB.
The Hermes stepped up my Pontus II in a signifcant way. Very happy with the add- brings you closer, into the music, opened it up more, bit more of a live feel. I recommend the Hermes DDC for Pontus (I/II) owners - although the DAC is great without it too. I came from Chord Qutest w/LPS (LPS was a signigant add to that DAC btw) and found the feel, seperation, musicaility to be better on the Pontus II. Qutest is a great DAC (although a bit vocal forward, slighlty unnatural IMO), and if i was into electronica. dance, likely would have kept it - but for a Rock/Acoustic/ Blues/Jazz/Alt guy Pontus II is great. OS Filter (punchier) or NOS (great for more laid back sessions, rolls off the top end a bit), Slow filter is what I use. I have read in a few places (i beleive Alvin said this too? but don't quote me on this) Pontus is a nice sweet spot in the Denafrips line. + Hermes, you essentialy have a better sounding Venus in my view. My point - I was somewhat skeptical on the DDC add, but after receiving it -100% a believer. If one has a unbelievable streamer with minimal Jitter, sending I2S into pontus 2, one may not get as large a bang for the buck as I did ..... I am using a MiniDSP Studio (running Dirac), as Roon end point, Spdif to Hermes and ++++!
If you haven’t already, check out the measurements of the BP unit in the Stereophile review. Measurements are not everything but IME they do matter to an extent. I completely lost interest in the BP after seeing these: BorderPatrol Digital to Analogue Converter SE Measurements Pretty poor performance all around. And if you want anything higher than Redbook CD resolution, forget about it. Many DAC designers would likely refer to the BP as “broken.”
Thanks, that’s really helpful (possibly not so helpful for my wallet). Alvin said the same to me when I was asking his opinion on what would work for my system. I appreciate that he suggested a model in the middle of their price range. It was a refreshing change from salespeople looking to upsell. I would order one today if I could try it under a no-risk return policy.
That's interesting. I do wonder if the choice of the DAC and the measurements were specifically chosen for its sonic character though. I think there are two schools of thought when it comes to DACs - those that want the audio presented as accurately as possible and those that want the audio to sound more "musical" and/or "naturally engaging" for lack of a better description. Maybe the Border Patrol was designed for the latter? I've heard both the Ares and the BP bring some of that vinyl analog character to their sound, the BP more so. Maybe the Ares is the happy midpoint between accuracy and musicality. It's unfortunate there is no way to try the Ares before buying. Their US distributor site indicates they do not take returns: https://www.vinshineaudio.com/terms "We run an honest business, we strive to keep the cost low, therefore, effectively pass down the saving to you, our customer. We do not support return / refund of any product." I decided to stick with my Yamaha CD-S300 for CD, and R-N602 for streaming as they honestly sound great through my A-S1100 out to Harbeth P3ESRs or Heresey IIIs. It just depends on the mastering.
I owned a Pro-Ject DAC that employs four of the TDA 1543 chips. It didn’t sound bad most of the time but occasionally produced audible distortion. Still, knowing Pro-Ject’s competency in all things digital (at which they’re arguably more talented than their analog pursuits) I would be surprised if their NOS DAC doesn’t measure better than the BP. The Ares manages all the good qualities of that Pro-Ject DAC but without any of the drawbacks. It proves that musicality and SOTA measured performance need not be mutually exclusive.
Did not enjoy it so much with a SS amplifier (Audia Flight FLS10) as the top end was slightly rolled off but it paired very well with a tube amp (LM805ia). Enjoyed it very much with the LM805ia.
