I currently have an older Nitty Gritty fully manual RCM and a Kirmuss Ultrasonic RCM. I'm thinking about moving to a Degritter for the convenience factor. Anyone make the switch? I'm curious about actual user experience. Is it worth $3,000 to add ultrasonic cleaning? I'm finding myself using the mirmuss less and less, and relying on the old NG for basic cleaning.
I use a Spin Clean for pre cleaning to remove surface and loose dirt. Then a US bath in a diy US machine (Chinese tank, and Vinyl stacker). Then a vac dry using a Nitty Gritty Machine. The Kirmus machine is attractively priced but I am skeptical of his Mystery Science Theater approach to marketing. His convoluted and involved multi steps seem to work (enough reports out there to confirm efficacy), BUT one could use his involved process of multi step scrubbing with just about any cleaning method to yield excellent results. My experience is a spin clean, followed by US clean, followed by vac dry works for me. Results can be outstanding- previously embedded low level grunge disappears, transient response improves, noise floor is virtually non existent and so on. My suggestion is to use your Kirmus as a basic cleaner, then vac dry and save $3k for additional music purchases.
That is pretty much what I’ve been doing thus far. The problem is that the Kirmuss is really not a part time solution. When you commit to it, you set it up and do a batch of records. The two slots make batches perhaps more convenient to do than most other US machines, but I’m more of a record to record guy. The Degritter water supply is closed and you can change it weekly (Kirmuss says to empty his immediately and don’t let it sit overnight). The Degritter to me looks like an arguably better-designed Audio Desk for $2k less.
I've said this before on this forum and others - the Degritter is the best audio purchase I have EVER made.
You could sell what you have and pay 1/3 toward the degritter. The degritter is on my radar next year after some remodeling projects
I’m now going the other way. From Degritter to Kirmuss. Unless I can find a way to make the Degritter cleaning sound like the Kirmuss... The Kirmuss is very labour intensive, but it’s results are undeniable to my ears.
Since the Degritter will dry the LP and the Kirmuss cannot, I would have thought the choice to be clear! Only question is what is better for the budget--a Kirmuss + a vacuum drying machine, or the Degritter. Then it possibly becomes more of a ?
I’ve been following along this and the other Degritter thread. I have a Kirmuss and a Nitty Gritty wet machine. Purely on a cost basis - they collectively cost about $1,000, or approximately 1/3rd of a Degritter - they would appear to be the winner. The issue I have is time and convenience, not to mention the sprawl of equipment, brushes and bottles. The Degritter would inevitably get more use than either of my other machines. In terms of effectiveness, I’ve really been interested in r.Din’s opinions. I had found that a friend’s AudioDesk machine did not work anywhere near as effectively as my Kirmuss in cleaning records that had failed to improve from wet cleaning. The Kirmuss process is tedious, but it gives you a lot of control because of the multiple cycles. I also still believe that blowing air on a record to dry it is far more likely to cause noise (through additional trapped dust) than a vacuum. I cannot figure out why the AudioDesk and the Degritter would not use a vacuum instead of a fan. I should note though that I found the Kirnuss recommendation of drying with a cloth to be the worst way to dry records. The resulting noise made me go back and re-clean with my Nitty Gritty (after which they sounded great).
Update on my position. I’ll now be using both! Kirmuss for the deep clean, which it does better in my testing, and then Degritter for distilled water rinse and blow dry. If using only the Kirmus and hand drying, you will need to watch for static and have a method for dealing with it and a decent water rinse to remove potential residue from surfactants.
I went the other way. I traded in my Kirmuss with Hifi Heaven, and bought the Degritter. So far, I love it. I’ve cleaned more records in a weekend than I have in the past year. Every record, every side is quiet, and the surfaces look perfect under bright LED lighting. The ability to just drop it into the machine and press “clean” is invaluable. My setup is very quiet to begin with, but I expect this will help extend the life of my records and my stylus.
Interesting insight from you. I have a Kirmuss and a Pro-Ject vacuum machine. I'm a big believer in thorough rinsing and go beyond distilled water to laboratory grade Type I water for the final rinse. The lab grade water does not lend itself to being reused in a well since it immediately becomes somewhat contaminated. My only interest in the Degritter is if it actually removes more noise than the Kirmuss method. It sounds like it's mostly convenience, which I thoroughly understand but since most of my collection has already been cleaned with the Kirmuss it's no longer a big deal. And yes, Kirmuss marketing is a bit offputting. So if I'm reading you correctly as one of the few with experience with both, the Degritter is easier to use but not more effective than the Kirmuss. I can also continue to use my OCD approach to final rinse. Thanks
I own a Kirmuss and use it with a final rinse with laboratory grade water on a Pro-Ject vacuum machine. I completely understand that the Kirmuss is more than a bit of a pain to use but I have pretty much cleaned my whole collection, at least the things of interest to me. My only motive for going to the Degritter at this stage would be if I felt that it does a better job of cleaning. Specifically if surface noise I still hear on some LP's would be improved, keeping in mind that it's more than a little possible that nothing can remove some/most of it at this stage. Thanks
I’m sorry, the Kirmuss looks like a pain in the A&$. Heck, I don’t even like using my Pro-Ject RCM. Degritter for me once I have $$ freed up
It is a colossal pain in the a$$. It’s not just the cleaning process. It’s the set up. The clean up. I can keep the Degritter upstairs and it’s unobtrusive. I go to play a record, drop it in the Degritter for 4-9 minutes depending on the cycle I choose, remove, and play. Simple. And records sound amazing right after they are cleaned. The Kirmuss is huge, uses 2x the water, and you need a fresh batch with every cleaning. The Degritter is easy to change water, and you do it once a week (and can go longer).
666666wrong. A new batch of water with every cleaning. I clean 20 records minimum each batch. People are lazy and it's an absolute waste to clean a record every time before use.
As a lazy sod, the Kirmuss goes against my grain. I'd never in a million years devote that much time and hassle to record cleaning. The Degritter is about as perfect as it gets in the real world for me - I wouldn't even bother cleaning my records if it weren't for the Degritter. (And...even then...my use of the Degritter is sparse).
Here's the solution...The Humminguru. Mine is far superior to the Kirmuss and at a fraction of the price!
I briefly owned the Kirmuss for a few months last Summer. After following the grueling Kirmuss cleaning process for a dozen or so records I was sold on the both the efficacy of ultrasonic cleaning, and the value proposition of the Degritter. Sure the Kirmuss worked well, better than the VPI 16.5 I had owned for 15 years, but it was more work than multiple wet cleans on the (deafening) VPI. IMHO record cleaning shouldn't occupy more time than record listening. I promptly bought a Degritter and flipped the Kirmuss. Since then record cleaning is a joy and about as much effort as making toast. I bought a second reservoir tank for my Degritter. I prep a record first by brushing on several drops of Tergikleen augmented distilled water before hand. Then I have the first tank labeled as the wash tank and the second as my rinse tank. The diluted Tergikleen pre-scrub along with a wash cycle followed by a rinse cycle gets the job done every time. The Degritter sits just outside the door of my (sound proofed) room. I typically spin a record side while the Degritter does it's thing. I. Love. My. Degritter.
That is my conclusion as well after extensively testing for weeks. Records cleaned with the Kirmuss open up a bit after a rinse cycle on the Kirmuss. The Kirmuss solution leaves a residue on records, no matter what Charles says. I do not find noise from the drying process on the Degritter to be a problem IF the record has been thoroughly rinsed. I actually do a second rinse using Lab Grade I water kept in a 2nd tank and used only on truly clean LP's. I find this is a superior rinse and dry to my Pro-Ject vacuum machine.
A Monks Prodigy, with models under $2000, are a reasonable option. The least expensive model is tweaky, but once set to properly, does a great job of cleaning a record.
I use the Walker System but they have sadly gone out of business. Ive heard Better Records have purchased them but getting product seems to be at a standstill..so now Im looking at options. For me, The Kirmuss system is just too time intensive/prohibitive and is not designed for real world use. Hell the Walker System is bad enough. Couple that with some of the worst forward facing marketing on this earth (as a marketer of 28 years, this BOTHERS me), the hardware that overheats and the "toothpaste" that appears or doesn't depending on God knows what... Well..The Degritter, while sadly expensive, seems like a viable option.
