You'll probably get a few responses to that statement because part of this site's raison d'etre is to sort through the various different masterings available and offer opinions to the pros and cons of each. I've avoided wasting plenty of cash because of the valuable info provided here. However, where I feel it can lose it's way is when it stops being a guide and becomes a contest where there has to be a winner. There's no reason, and the Zep masterings are a perfect example, why one has to only like all the Diaments, or all the Davis' or hate all the Marinos ? They all have something to offer depending on your tastes. We got options, and that's a good thing !
It’s fine to “just not buy it” of course, my point is that marketing hype is not a reliable indicator of content/souring, in the same way that “it sounds great to me! ” posts are not a barometer of objective sound quality. Not all of the Diaments are better, for sure. Some use inferior tapes, some better tapes. I think many of the posts claiming them all to be superior comes from folks who don’t like sets without matching spines, haha. Led Zep remixed could be very interesting, or a complete disaster (like the Chicago CTA remix), all depends on who does it. You would also get posters claiming the remixes are “definitive” and others claiming that Jimmy Page just retroactively destroyed their childhood.
Lots of common sense there, obviously. But, "objective sound quality?" What's that? Infinite combinations of components, listening environments, and most importantly, ears.
Thanks! To the best of my knowledge, the late '90s Japan "mini-LP" cardboard-sleeve CDs are bit-for-bit identical to whatever was the current, in-print mastering at the time: so that would be the Marino mastering for all the studio albums, and the original 1980s Barry Diament mastering for The Song Remains the Same (because that album was not remastered until the expanded/remixed 2007 version). I have specifically compared the '90s The Song Remains the Same Japan cardboard-sleeve issue (I believe it's from 1997) to the 1980s US standard issue, and they are bit-for-bit identical. For all the valid complaints about the Zep catalogue, the one complaint that always amuses me is the "money grab" one. There are only two or three masterings available of any Zep album, whereas many of their peer groups have 20th, 30th, and 40th anniversary remasterings, and a bunch of other remasterings in between (not to mention the scarves and marbles).
Yeah, I actually don't know. Could have been someone else who did the actual transfers. All I know is that the 1990 transfers were at redbook resolution and bit-depth, and that Marino mastered them.
That is a great point, the Zep catalogue is among the most famous and well known in rock history and I am actually surprised they haven't milked it with more remasters and 5.1 mixes, and remixes, and random deluxe editions beyond the companion disks, etc.
Thank you. But maybe it was an evil spell cast upon those disks. It could have happened....Maybe.... Seriously.....So let me get this straight. They didn't go with the digital production tapes they had made for the albums. Instead they went looking for the original masters or good copies and screwed up the A/D transfer? As in the matter you mentioned? That is what is sounds like. I could believe that. Makes sense. But if they had just taken the songs from even a digital safety copy I and other unfortunate boobies would not have been stuck with that abomination before the world. And I just HAD to purchase AFTERGLIW the very first month the thing came out. There's luck for you.
That would be 16/44.1 yes? Many people don't realize that even just 24/48 didn't start until the early 90's. I think by the mid 90's most engineers were jumping on the 24/96 wagon. Although many recording engineers today record at 48 khz or even 44.1. In amateur recording Productions I found the 24/96 and 24/192 used the most. Novices that think that bit depth and sample rate are more important than getting a good mix or setting up a microphone properly. If you record your tracks right (with proper gain staging) and mix them well on good monitors (40 - 20 000 hz +-2db) in a treated room then even 16/44.1 will sound great. I once dropped the sample rate of a Pro Tools file to 32 khz to get rid of the nasty top end I was hearing on so many of the tracks. In honesty...I have done it more than once. Don't tell anyone o.k....Please. dropped it to 32 khz then a D/A conversion.. ran through the old trusty Manely Massive Passive and A/D back in at 44.1. If course there is nothing above 16khz. But the final sample rate has to be 44.1 for the CD.
A man who is wise. Agreed. Unfortunately Jimmy loved compression..I am sure we all know the story about how he heavily compressed the drums on "When Levee Breaks." The full drum sound was achieved by two microphones hanging from the ceiling down the hall from the studio and then compressing the cheese out of the drum track. It is more than compression but it gives the song the sound it needs. I love it. Others may. I have always thought the drums on ELO and Zeppelin records could have sounded better.
Great conversation as usual. Learned a lot tonight. Going to Log out now Hoffman dudes and dudettes. Hot tea and cookies await.
Actually, I've got a small dip in the 2.5 KHz area in my left ear, but fine other than that, aside from simply age. I told you that you wouldn't like it. It has exactly the same amount of high frequency content as that track by The Crystal Method that I posted above that. They both sound just fine to me. Are you sure you don't have unusually high reproduction of high frequencies in your playback system?
So did Roger Glover about the original Deep Purple CDs and those sound better then the remasters he was involved in.
Objective sound quality being measurable and definable characteristics of the mastering/recording, in relation to other media/masterings/sources (i.e. Is there NR, compression, digital filtering, evidence of copy tapes being used, dropouts etc etc etc). Stuff that isn’t entirely system dependent like EQ can be. Done via careful listening on a single setup, and assisted by waveform and spectral plot analysis, you can tell a lot about a mastering even on very inexpensive gear.
Well said. I would finish a mix of some demo of a client and I would ask my Uncle to listen. My Uncle would look at the waveform of a mix I just did on the screen and proclaim, "I don't need to play the damn track. I can see on here that the kick and bass is too loud, and that you are soon planning to join the loudess wars. DR8. Remix it!..." Mmmm....Uncle Jack loved his diagnostic tools.
And sometimes beyond...... When I first listened to the Pepper remix I heard something that really wasn't there. The part where John sings "Love to turn you on" and it's his voice (recorded with echo) moves right to left. When I first heard it my brain was playing tricks with me. Each panning location had a discrete echo that didn't go away as the panner moved Mr. Lennon to the next spot to the left. It just kept building up echos. By the end of the stereo panners journey there were 6 discrete echos over the soundstage. One would start, then very slowly the panner would move to the next spot and another one would appear. Now they were two delays. Not decaying either. A permanent delay but it never decays or grows. Just stays the same like it's in a time loop. And then it would move again slowly to the left. Time had slowed. But the song never slowed in speed or dropped in pitch. A third delay appeared. Now they were three. That went on for a long time for what felt like a minute. Soon they were six delays of Lennon singing in a loop "on on on on" never decaying. It was as if my brain couldn't process the whole delayed voice going from right to left. As if my brain had broke it down into individual parts. It was the weirdest thing you ever heard. They were six Lennons in six separate parts of the soundstage echoing "on on on on" all at once and then it vanished. I thought it was Giles mixing at first. I wasn't on any drugs at the time but it was the rare auditory hallucinations I get from time to time. My point is regarding the Zep masters is many factors can contribute to what we hear. Own personal bias. And of course auditory hallucinations. I know it sounds silly but it happened to me. If only my brain could make those horrid Iron Maiden 1998 remasters sound great. Mabe I could hallucinative flat transfers. As a 8 year old boy I used to have full blown visual and audio hallucinations. Time would slow down. It was weird. Never told anyone....they went away until a few years ago.
Your post is ridiculous. If that sounds harsh, you opened the door. John’s posts are thoughtful and knowledgeable. He writes in a credible way. Lines like “History states otherwise.” simply tells us that you don’t have facts to bring to the party. Talking about race cars and Jesus takes us further away, doesn’t it?
Thank you. The member in question did have some good points. If The Beatles had had access to a digital multi-band compressor Sgt. Pepper (1967 mix) probably would have had a DR of 3. And we would be now praising the new remix for it's great increase in dynamic range. Wow look! The Pepper remix is a DR8. But who knows.... I would have loved a discussion on the cutting practices of the 50's. I might have learned something. Oh well. I will give you an example where Wickipiadea can be wrong and where history isn't what you thought it was. History says that the first black woman to be allowed into a white American Beauty pageant was Eveleyn Andarde in 1954. She was offered a Hollywood contract but turned it down. Wow the first Black women to be admited to the a white American beauty pageant. One small problem. She wasn't black. Members say: Well that's your opinion. I know because Evelyn Andrade was my Aunt. My Mother's maiden name is Andrade. Her father was Alan B. Andrade. His father was Mosses Andrade. Mosses had a daughter born in 1936. That lady was Evelyn Andrade. So Evelyn's father was my Great-grandfather. I have his super hair line as well. That picture for the site is not someone else it is me.. And that is all my real hair. No wig, weaves and extensions. No curling iron either. Anyway to make a long story short the American press went down to Jamiaca and interviewed people about Miss. Andrade- the 1954 Miss Jamaica / West Indies winner. They were told Evelyn's father was a White Portuguese Jew. And her Mother was a Syrian Jew. As soon as the 50's race obsessed reporter heard SYRIAN there mind started to turn out this: Syrians are Arabs and Arabs are Wogs and Wogs are coloured people (that is the word all Americans used to describe Black people back in the 1950's) So in the newspaper it read: "... Evelyn Andrade. Miss West Indies 1954. Born Kingston, Jamaica 1936. Father Jewish and mother Negro..." I KID YOU NOT GUYS. Truth is Evelyn's parents were white Syrian Jews. They were not Arabs. Even the silly American One Drop rule doesn't even apply here! My Mother phoned Evelyn and told her about the nonsense that was going on but Evelyn didn't want to ruin things for the Island or other women of colour so she kept quiet. Made the cover of Jet magazine and everything. The link is below. So the first Black woman to be allowed to enter a white American beauty pageant was in fact a white woman. My point is here is a bit of history that is a lie. Just because it is on a Wicki page doesn't make it true. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw18xC9uE5Aq78BKSy-W4-Qz&cshid=1571238167167 I hope I haven't offended anyone. It was not my attention. Just to bring to the members attention that "What history say" isn't always right. If I have pushed the topic way off thread I sincerely apologize. I just needed to make a point. This is a family story so I knew info that NO one else could possibly know.
Thank you for the detailed reply and the further on update re mini sleeves. I have all the mini sleeves as well including the big set that came with the turquoise writing for the debut album they are nicely done! I have kept the original Crop Circles box really as an old relic from the past but no longer have box set 2.
Yes. Mono signals translate to a horizontal modulation on vinyl, and signals that are completely out of phase translate to a vertical modulation. Low frequency out of phase information is hard to play back, so during cutting low frequencies are often summed to mono using an elliptic EQ. The issue is that such an EQ does not have a hard cutoff. Higher frequencies are also affected, just not as much; the slope of the EQ is usually 6dB/octave. All of this means that for HOTH, the Marino and Davis remasters have somewhat reduced stereo separation, which is the worst below 150Hz.
