Are all Rolling Stones German CDs by Mobile Fidelity?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Peter_R, May 7, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Peter_R

    Peter_R Maple Syrple Gort Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    I recently stumbled on a collection of London "Made in West Germany" CDs of the Rolling Stones & Marianne Faithfull.
    The Hot Rocks one is the only one I see that says it was made by Mobile Fidelity.

    Am I missing something here? They all appear to be made at the same time. Like I said, it was one collection I picked up via Craigslist.

    What should I be looking for to know what's what?

    The sooner I know, the sooner I'll be posting them here... :winkgrin:
     
  2. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    No, I don't think so. It would always say MFSL on the discs if they were transferred to digital by MFSL. I don't think MFSL actually made them.
     
    audiomixer likes this.
  3. Peter_R

    Peter_R Maple Syrple Gort Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    That was fast. Anyone else wanna weigh in on this?
     
  4. John Cantrell

    John Cantrell Active Member

    Location:
    Outta here
    All of the original London CDs were mastered by Mobile Fidelity. Whether credited on the back or not isn't important.
    What should be noted is that MoFi was not happy with Decca/London's decision to use their mastering for the CDs.

    "It's unsurprising that many USA Stones fans (those who aren't the kind of obsessives we
    are, anyway) wouldn't know this, but here we go; in summary, while the US had until
    now been stuck with the crap-tacular early ABKCO CDs for the Stones' Decca albums,
    this was NOT the case for the rest of the world. While ABKCO owned the CD rights for
    the Stones' albums in the states, they didn't quite hold worldwide influence, which led to
    the London label (which older Stones fans will recognize as the label on which the
    original US records came out) reissuing their OWN versions of the Stones discs right
    before ABKCO got started. The thing is, while ABKCO utilized "whatever was on the
    shelf" for their discs, and generally turned out a substandard product full of muddy-
    sounding tracks, fake stereo mixes, and stereo fold-downs, London managed to utilize
    tapes that had been prepared by audiophile label Mobile Fidelity for their early-80s
    Stones LP boxed-set. The result? The London discs were very un-craptacular, and for the
    most part still sound rather swell today.

    In particular, the London CDs introduced several stereo versions of songs that had
    previously been only in mono ("Satisfaction", "Get Off of My Cloud," "Play With Fire"),
    and had several rarities the ABKCO discs completely lacked. London also chose to
    release the UK versions of Aftermath and 1st instead of the American versions, and
    ignored the Big Hits compilations entirely. For the most part, the London discs were also
    free of some of the more heinous tampering that marked ABKCO's catalogue, as folded-
    down stereo mixes and fake stereo do not make an appearance on the London set.

    [Note: Those three songs mentioned above are the only three that were completely new
    stereo-wise. Other stereo tracks that the London discs utilized actually had shown up in
    stereo somewhere on vinyl. "It's All Over Now," for example, was stereo on Rolled Gold;
    'Paint it, Black" was stereo on the US Aftermath; "Time is On My Side" was stereo on
    some later pressings of hits compilations.]

    Note that while the London discs are usually preferred to the ABKCO versions of
    the same titles, in many cases the differences are pretty subtle. In particular, the early
    material (i.e. Now!, parts of 12x5, Out Of Our Heads) doesn't sound much different, as
    many of those tracks NEVER sounded very good in the first place. In some cases, things
    do sound different, but not necessarily "better" or "worse."

    Mobile Fidelity, it should be noted, wasn't very happy about London's use of their
    tapes (as one label head went on record and bemoaned that London's use of the "Decca
    Digital" system had destroyed the faithfulness of the tapes used, despite ambiguity as to
    whether or not the system was actually used), so while the back of some of the London
    discs do credit MFSL, some do not. This is semi-random throughout the releases, and its
    absence does NOT mean you have an old-ABKCO version of a disc.


    Now, the last degree of note with regard to the London discs involves the various
    issues thereof. Simplifying a bit, we get a total of 5 disparate London issues: the early,
    German pre-ABKCO discs (not all titles were released in this batch, artwork is very bare-
    bones, and some titles have a "DIGITALLY REMASTERED" banner in the upper-left
    corner), the "regular period" German discs, the Japanese P33L series, the Japanese P25L
    series, and the early POCD series. There are several subcategories I'm ignoring (i.e. the
    "regular issue" German discs actually went through several different pressing runs), but
    these are the major variations. Here's how the content of these various issues pans out:

    a) The early-pressing German London discs sound like straight transfers from the tapes;
    while the packaging and artwork isn't all that hot, the discs sound great. Several titles are
    not included in this run, including the More Hot Rocks discs, Got Live If You Want It!,
    Let It Bleed, and December's Children. Some discs mention ABKCO, some don't. Note
    that EXTREMELY EARLY German pressings exist of only self-titled and Beggar's
    Banquet; these have a radically different disc-design than the "regular" early pressings
    and the later pressings.

    b) The regular-issue German London discs have a 12-page booklet/catalogue. The
    "digitally remastered" banner is now retired on all titles, and back-cover artwork is
    improved. While many entries in this series seem to be clones of the earliest pressings,
    some notably vary, including Hot Rocks (with fade-ups on some tracks), self-titled
    (without the longest version of "Tell Me"), and others; see section 4.0 for precise details.
    These discs were in print until around 1995, and there are several variations of this run
    which include slightly-different disc designs, et cetera. Australian CD pressings exist of
    self-titled which are identical to this German version.

    Because of the fade-ups inherent on multiple titles in this set, the early-version variants of those titles are usually preferred."
     
    Peter_R and Robert C like this.
  5. Peter_R

    Peter_R Maple Syrple Gort Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    WOW! Thanks for the thorough post.

    Any info on the Faithfull titles?
     
  6. Propinquity

    Propinquity Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gravel Switch, KY
    The quote posted by John came from lukpac's site and is only conjecture. I don't think it's true because I've A/B'd Gimme Shelter from London's Hot Rocks 2 (known to be MOFI) and Let It Bleed and found the Hot Rocks to be of higher quality. Some of the 1987 London's are not in the same league as the earlier MOFI's.

    The following are known to be from MFSL tapes.

    The Rollings Stones (UK)
    12X5
    Out Of Our Heads (US)
    Aftermath (UK)
    Between the Buttons (US)
    Beggars Banquet
    Hot Rocks 1
    Hot Rocks 2
     
  7. John Cantrell

    John Cantrell Active Member

    Location:
    Outta here
    Sorry, I don't have any info on her catalog. I do have another very useful link for (us) Stones freaks, though.

    Forum Member Lukpac's Rolling Stones Resource

    "It's unsurprising that many USA Stones fans (those who aren't the kind of obsessives we
    are, anyway) wouldn't know this, but here we go; in summary, while the US had until
    now been stuck with the crap-tacular early ABKCO CDs for the Stones' Decca albums,
    this was NOT the case for the rest of the world. While ABKCO owned the CD rights for
    the Stones' albums in the states, they didn't quite hold worldwide influence, which led to
    the London label (which older Stones fans will recognize as the label on which the
    original US records came out) reissuing their OWN versions of the Stones discs right
    before ABKCO got started. The thing is, while ABKCO utilized "whatever was on the
    shelf" for their discs, and generally turned out a substandard product full of muddy-
    sounding tracks, fake stereo mixes, and stereo fold-downs, London managed to utilize
    tapes that had been prepared by audiophile label Mobile Fidelity for their early-80s
    Stones LP boxed-set. The result? The London discs were very un-craptacular, and for the
    most part still sound rather swell today.
    "
     
  8. Terry

    Terry Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee
    Why do so many consider Lukpac an authority? I read an interview with him in which he bragged that he owned six copies of Who's Next. My response: "Is that all?"
     
  9. John Cantrell

    John Cantrell Active Member

    Location:
    Outta here
    Hell, I'm a whore. I'm willing to switch my alliance to yourself in a heartbeat. Now, if you'll just point me in the direction of your in-depth research on the subject?
     
  10. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    It's really the work of two, Luke and David (Goodwin). Where is your essay?
     
  11. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Huh?

    It is mostly David's baby. I added bits here and there and assisted with editing.

    As noted in the FAQ, the digital transfers by MFSL were apparently done somewhat under the table, and any credit would be decided by Decca/London, not MFSL. I wouldn't take a lack of credit as having any particular significance.
     
  12. Peter_R

    Peter_R Maple Syrple Gort Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Anyone know about the Marianne Faithfull tracks?
    Were they handled by Mo-Fi?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine