Oh ok, I did not know there was a similarly major disparity on Lodger too! I like it, so.. I need it! Thank you!
OK, this is interesting. I love Station to Station, and have the Jpn for US (PCD1-1327), the WG for EU(PD81327), the Jpn for Jpn (R32P-1039, which I always assumed was the same as the Jpn for Jpn, but perhaps I'm wrong?), and the two versions from the deluxe box released in 2010. I'm going to take them to the office and listen tonight. Are the ones from the box set (1985 CD Master and Original Analogue Master) the same as any previous versions?
To answer the original question, yes if you are digital only. If you have a turn table, no. The LPs sound better than the wonderful RCA CDs ... For me though, I have both, so there you go.
the R32P uses the same source as the PCD1, as can be confirmed by the truncated intro to Word On A Wing. it is a full 5dB louder however, the PCD1 peaking at a little under -7dB. the 1985 CD master in the box is a clone of the WG RCA that you also have. the two in the box (and thus the WG) represent the two best digital options IMO.
No. That was the Japan for US issue with the orange rainbow on the spine. The Station to Station Germany for Europe issue with the blue rainbow on the spine sounds outstanding, IMO.
Agreed. Those RCA's were sourced from LP EQ masters which are at least a generation removed. I say "at least" because the foreign divisions probably used copies of those. The Rykos were sourced from the original 2-track masters. So one has the option: Listen to a version that sort of resembles the original album (which was EQ'd for the limitations of vinyl), or a version that approximates what they heard in the studio when they mixed it. I prefer the later.
Yes, I was interested in the difference between the R32P and the Jpn for US PCD1. Great info. Thanks.
repeating these myths does not make them facts. the RCA sources are known only by those who made them. they cannot have been made from LP masters and cassette masters (the latter as claimed by Ryko's Jeff Rougvie). what is known is that the US "masters" were rejected in most cases and superior sources located for the European RCAs. and if the Rykos came from the "original 2-track masters" how can the inclusion of three incorrect mixes on Young Americans be explained? if you want to believe that Toby Mountain ran the tapes flat and thus you are hearing "what they heard in the studio when they mixed it" then go ahead. all most hear is questionable EQ and occasional skewing of the stereo balance not found on other editions. if you prefer them, that's all well and good, but to assume this is how they "should" sound is very debatable.
right, and different sources for EU and US editions plus conflicting "LP master" vs "cassette master" theories (from whom did these claims originate i wonder?) don't add up to a myth? keep drinking whatever it is that makes you think you're hearing the music as it was intended to be heard via the Rykos.
For someone who is broke I wish I had the money to drink the kool-aid And find out. I have the catalog on various vinyl pressings and the rykodisc. My most beloved vinyl pressing is a first German for Space. I've been listening to all my ryko's the last couple days and with some eq I think they sound pretty nice for the most part. It's not like they are so bad I can't enjoy the music.
i never hear of any other CDs being EQd before enjoying... why are the Rykos a special case? if i couldn't enjoy a CD without having to tweak it first, i'd find a better version. if Ryko or EMI/Virgin had done the job right, nobody would be paying over the odds for the RCAs.
I have the Rykos on CD and vinyl and this doesn't sound right to me. The Rykos sound decent but based solely on my listening to them, I don't think they were transferred flat.
I know I twist a couple dials and they come to life. Doesn't bother me really and they do come to life imo. Given the money for the rca's the rykodisc more then do the job. It is what it is, Artist, labels, screw up catalogs we deal with it. Best Bowie sound is from the original records anyway.
I only have two RCA Bowie CD's, Hunky Dory and Ziggy Stardust. They have long been packed away in storage so I'm not sure which RCA release they are, but both were bought new in Australia in the mid-late 1980s. Sonic wise I can't fault either of them, and prefer them to the later remasters. They also sound better than my (also packed away) early Aus LPs of the same albums.
you say this without having heard the RCAs of course. if cost is your main criteria then everything's available for free if you really want to hear it. i generally agree with you, but "original" vinyl does not sound the same from territory to territory. i'd argue it's even more convoluted than the relatively few CD choices.
I'm speaking for me only obviously and I agree about the records it's common knowledge here. Here in the USA the cd gods would have to be smileing pretty hard on me to come across one in a shop. The fact remains with a tweak the rykodisc sound pretty good despite the fact that the rca's may sound better. It's not like someone with a ryko and the knowledge and ability to tweak can't Get decent sound and enjoy the music. Your right i havent heard them and might be blown away. Your passions is appreciated and the work you put into pressing Info deserves you many blessings, I'm on your side Bowie never got it right After all these years digitally. Feel free to mail me a set of Bowie rca cdr's.
you'd be disappointed if your expectations were that high. i've acknowledged the flaws in the RCAs in detail. no digital issue among Bowie's catalog is as good as it could be, but where there is a "best" option, it's invariably to be found among the RCA discs. anyone blindly buying them regardless of cost, would be underwhelmed. select carefully based on a favourite album and go from there. if you don't like what you hear, you've saved yourself money and satisfied your curiosity.
Thanks for posting that informative download. Mine must be the Japanese for Europe versions as what they sound like is consistent with Karmaman's view. They are neither warm or cold or dull or bright (big tick here) but is quite dynamic and focused - well as much as can be expected from a Bowie recording - though as he says, Andy Warhol is excessively bright (I'd argue so too is Queen Bitch). These CDs sound fairly close to the master tapes as you can hear the tape hiss on the quiet passages. He is also right about the flaws, which would also be on the masters, such as the drop out on Changes. But overall, IMO these are very good and I can see why they are becoming valuable on the used market.
There is no way the Rykos were mastered flat (although I'm not sure that's what 3ringcircus meant to imply).
Nice theory. Perhaps applicable to some listeners. I just want them to sound "good". The Ryko and Virgin/EMI remasters do not meet that requirement. I had not heard any Bowie lps at the time I made that determination as I imagine is true for many on this forum who prefer the RCA cds. They simply sound better without reference to an lp for comparison. Obviously YMMV (And, yes, since I now have a turntable and a few Bowie lps, I can say the RCA cds don't really compete at that level--but I guess I need to compare my WG RCA Low cd to my lp based on Plan 9's comments.)
The "mastering insiders" are the folks who actually mastered the records. We have a lot of "mastering speculators."
One could ask Jeff Rougvie about the tweaking that was done. I imagine a light hand was applied to achieve some continuity throughout the series. You'd be surprised though. I've been involved with projects over the years that were mastered flat from original tapes. And because those sources did not have the bass and treble rolled off (like the subsequent LP EQ master), some forum members thought a "smiley face" curve had been applied.
