At what point does a system provide the benefit of a 45rpm over 33rpm vinyl record??

I have only a modest setup (Rega Planar 3 w/ Elys 2, Rega Brio amp, and Dynaudio Excite X14 bookshelves) in a 10’ x 20’ acoustically treated basement room.

I’ve had a few conversations lately that have me questioning if I should be paying extra for 45rpm versions because my system might not be able to capture and benefit from this format from companies that offer both versions (Analogue Productions or Music Matters for example)

I don’t have any albums with both versions so I figured I’d ask if others have an opinion on when a setup actually reaps the benefit of a 45rpm version over a 33rpm album?

 

Following!

 

I have what I would call an above modest system. For me the difference in 45 vs 33 is not always so obvious. On the Music matters stuff I have a couple of 33s and 45s and some SRX too so it’s a good comparison.

Is the 45 generally better where such comparisons can be made? Mostly yes but not always. I would also further say the SRX does have something a bit unique but it’s crazy expensive IMO.

Since you seem to be speaking more about Jazz here with your question, what is more obvious in my experience is skipping the expensive reissues and seeking out good copies of originals or early pressings. But that’s not really what you were asking

 

At about 39 RPM, give or take...

 

To me 45s and 33s sound pretty much the same. More often than not 45s have a bit less amount of clicks and pops, that’s it.

 

45's have a faster writing speed than 33's so they have the potential to sound better. Just like Betamax had a faster writing speed than VHS. Beta's had the superior picture quality. 15 ips on reel tapes can go well over 20khz. Just think of the potential of 78 rpm records if they were recorded using todays modern recording techniques. We could have dynamic range approaching 100 db instead of 50-60 db on current pressings. But then we already have CD's and DVD audio that play with 90-100 db dynamic range and sampling rates of up to 192 khz. I still prefer vinyl because of the physical involvement with the format. With cd's you just push play.

 

I have a couple of remastered all analog 45 rpm 12" double albums. I think the two albums surpass LP's in sound quality. My system is modest: Rega upgraded TT with Ortofon Quintet Blue, NAD C162 preamp, NAD C272 power amp, Marantz DV 18 MK II, and AR 3a's.

 

LOL.

 

I have a pretty nice system, but have not been interested in 45's at all. Vinyl is my 'secondary source,' and for pure convenience I'm just not interested in flipping/changing the lp as often as 45's require. I know they can sound better, but I can live with that.

 

At that point by which the turntable spouts arms and hands and has learned to flip the record over at the end of the side.

 

I’m thinking of Kind of Blue at 45rpm. Original pressings are pricey for nice copies. Does the newer MoFi reissues have the correct speed for side one like the newer cd’s?

 

I love my music matters 45s, had a subscription for awhile in the early days of the series. But they are a pain in the ass.

 

The only system is one in which the turntable is on a platform right next to the seating of the listener. ~~~~~Some what of a joke~~~~~~.

Two to three songs and that’s it...to be honest, I never understood the 45 unless it was to record directly to tape.

They do sound fantastic though....maybe a system to record to 2track, 15 ips, reel to reel.

 

Yes, the MoFi double LP has the correct speed.

Regarding OP's question, the way to determine the sound quality between 33 to 45RPM is if you can compare two albums pressed/released by the same label and cut by the same engineer, such as the case for Dave Brubeck Quartet's Time Out by Bernie Grundman through Analogue Productions. That way, it's not an "orange" and "apple" comparison with respect to say the Music Matters 33 vs 45 releases since they're cut at different studios using different audio equipment, etc.

Perhaps somebody else can interject other examples of 33/45RPM cuts released at the same time frame/same engineer and whatnot.

 

12 inch 45 RPM records are weird things. The entire point of spinning the record faster is improve IPS of groove as it approaches the inner groove. I own a few 45 RPM 12" records and they almost never approach the inner groove. So, you can look at it from 2 views. If it does approach the inner (which is almost never) the problem is solved or it doesn't approach the inner groove (problem also solved). Still you are getting more inches per second of groove no matter where you are on the groove, so that's still a thing.

 

Yeesh, even on a craptacular Soundesign tabletop system, I could tell a 12" 45 was better than anything else at the time. I mean, its not even debatable. Those 12" singles were incredible.

 

On my modest but resolving system, I can hear a clear difference - depending on the mastering/pressing quality. It really depends on the quality of any given pressing. I’ve found they’re generally more expense & aren’t always an improvement over the original.

But after having gone down that road, a clean original 33 1/3 works for me, and I don’t have to flip four sides every ten to fifteen minutes, or switch the belt on the Nott.

I’ll use Fleetwood Mac as an example. Until I found a nice Kendun/Pogo, the 2012 45 rpm was my go-to.

 

The 45 RPM Rumours that you worked on sounds bloody good....

 

In my experience, they sound 'bigger'.
Better would be subjective...if bigger/louder is your def of better...then yes.
IMO, a format best left to "singles".

 

Thanks all -- confirms my decision to avoid 45's.

 

I have may be dozen of 2X12 45rpm records by AP and MoFi. Some of them sounds great (Doors for example), some are boring.
One of the best sounding 2x12 45 I have is ZZ Top "La Futura" (non-audiophile label), improvements over digital version is so spectacular.. But there are no 33 rpm version to compare with )). Greatful Dead "American Beauty" recent pressing 45rpm is also very special to my ears.
Bob Dylan "John Wesley Harding" 45 is good, but 1st press mono sounds much more "alive" to my ears.
Anyway, now I am kind of on a fence about worthiness of paying almost double for 45 rpm records.

 

Bizarrely, I saw just such a turntable for sale back in the eighties. It didn't turn the vinyl over, but the tonearm was on a pivot and could swing under the LP to play the second side. I dread to think what the sound quality was like.

 

This idea of "just louder" is interesting. now, there are clearly more variables at play than just the increased RPM of an original to a MOFI or AP 45 rpm reissue. If I take any original Dylan and do an A/B with a 45rpm mofi, I can use a DB meter to measure the volume. Leaving everything alone, the DB meter doesn't measure higher with the 45. "better" is subjective but I find the 45rpm has more detail in the symbols and there are other details that weren't there before. More vivid and lifelike in some cases. I think additional detail is often thought of as "bright" or perhaps "louder".

but again, there is more going on that just differences in the RPM. A apples to apples test would be to play an original LP and A/B it with a the original 45rpm single from that album. I've not done that but on the rare occasions I do play 7" 45's I cant say I felt it sounded louder that normal. IT would seem that the industry decided 45rpm was a better sounding option a long time ago and 33 was a compromise for retail sales and home use. Perhaps I'm wrong but 45's went to broadcast applications and now the choice for audiophile pressings. I guess the cynical way to look at that would be to say it was the brick walling of the day to get a single heard on poor equipment or a noisy environment and audiophile reissues are using it as a gimmick to sell at higher prices. But I do belive the people at MOFI are only trying to make the best sounding product possible I doubt their onestep releases would be 45rpm if it didn't sound the best. This isn't an all or nothing situation when it come to RPM's. I've bought some 12" 45's that I quickly traded back because I preferred what I already had.

But to answer the question, you should be able to hear the difference between pressings on any system. More a matter of learning what to listen for than buying better equipment.