Audiophile fuses or standard Bussman fuses ?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Soundlabs, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. vwestlife

    vwestlife Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    A lot of consumer products advertised as "military-grade" are really more like "G.I. Joe-grade".
     
  2. Weber

    Weber Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Lodi ,Ohio
    If you buy military grade, make sure you buy them in a state that has a military base close. Most bases sell there surplus to local people that sell elsewhere.
     
  3. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Don't know why not. The only difference is that every solder joint on a spacecraft has to be inspected, and has to be qualified. Down to using transparent shrink wrap tubing that an inspector can see through.

    Nothing to stop you doing the same sort of process with audio cables. Particularly given the price that Audioquest are charging for their top of the range loudspeaker cables (tens of k dollars for an 8 foot pair) :yikes:
     
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  4. Kende

    Kende Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Brampton,ON Canada
    I am agree with the above . My too I don't like to spend big money on expensive fuse, but I have changed the chinese fuse in my LM 518 set amp with Hifi fuse supreme and was audible difference. Hifi supreme has fuse orientation . The arrow on the fuse pointing toward the outer side of the amp ,gave me better sound stage and dept . The opposite way the soundstage was smaller. Might be system dependable I do not know.
     
  5. Weber

    Weber Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Lodi ,Ohio
    Just Walking, I did see you have a few diy things. I don't anything wrong on any diy. I have done diy cables and power cords. Rebuilt cross overs with better caps. But I do not think anyone could diy cables and power cords like Audioquest does them.
     
  6. Weber

    Weber Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Lodi ,Ohio
    I have tried the HiFi supreme 99% silver/1% gold fuses. They did give a noticeable change. They are much better than the other HiFi fuse line. I found the Acme fuse much better than them. But SR Purple fuse is the best I have used. But at $200 each They are costly if you need a lot of them. Myself I needed 3 of them for my system. There is no way I could spend $600 in my system to get this proformance. If I needed more than 3 I would have to really think about buy them.
     
  7. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Going back to fuses, the key attribute of ceramic bodies fuses is high rupture capacity (HRC). That means that they will cheerfully operate regularly at or near to regular fuse capacity, but will safely rupture when subjected to a massive overload.

    Typical ceramic bodied fuses of regular size have a safe rupture capacity of typically 1.5kA at 400V rms ac. That means that if there is a catastrophic fault in your gear - a hard short circuit in the mains transformer (say) - the fuse wire will rupture without the fuse body physically exploding.

    The regular glass bodied fuses can, and will, explode under massive overload, and spray glass shrapnel.

    Fluke multimeters are protected by two fuses. A 0.44A and an 11A for the two current ranges, both ceramic bodied. They are both rated at 1kV. The 0.44A version will safely rupture 10kA and the 11A one 20kA. FLU Series - Midget 10x38mm Fuses Industrial Power Fuses from Fuses - Littelfuse . They are about $15 each, and have full UL approval. The problem is that they are not the size that fits in audio gear.

    Cheapo Chinese multimeters typically have regular glass fuses, and are practically guaranteed to blow up in your hand if the fuses blow under heavy overload.
     
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  8. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Going back to characteristic impedance. That arises from the interaction of electric (capacitance per unit length) and magnetic fields (inductance per unit length) that apply to interacting wire pairs. You cannot escape that.

    A more relevant question is what is the relevance of characteristic impedance in audio? For radio frequencies in the tens of MHz range and upwards, yes you have to take this into consideration. For a digital link like SPDIF it is essential to take characteristic impedance into account

    However in audio, where the maximum frequency might be 100kHz, it will only be needed to be taken into account if the cable is more than a few tens of miles. For regular length domestic audio cables, characteristic impedance can be safely ignored. Perhaps that is the core of Audioquest's concept.
     
  9. Weber

    Weber Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Lodi ,Ohio
    I do respect your knowledge. Not many times do I come across a person if your degree of electronics. I'm not sure how Audioquest gets there cables and power conditioners to work so well. Is it a lot of engineering trickery? I have no idea. And how does SR do to there fuses to make them work so good. I've read how they do there high voltage tunneling and such. In the end results of all this it definitely changes how they make audio gear sound.
     
  10. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gone
    In my area of engineering we call the characteristic Z 'surge Z' or the SIL, surge Z loading.
    Basically the Z to a transient.
    Z0 = 1/sqrt(L/C)
    Critical factor in power system faults. It determines whether a line supplies or absorbs reactive power. Vdrop or gain.

    The only place in audio where it may be relevant would be a phono circuit.

    Where the L of the cartridge and the C of the phono input must be balanced. So that it is dampened, but not so much as to the blunt transient response.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
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  11. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    What I don’t understand is how they manage cold solder joints so consistently.
     
  12. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Scientist's have opinions too

    Location:
    AZ
    Some of this perception / conclusion may be happening in your own noggin, your translation of your ears to your brain, ending up in what you want to hear / conclude. Or maybe you work for AQ, I dunno.

    It's not trickery it's bias (yours) and marketing (which you believe).

    You have been repeatedly making a case that AQ is somehow better than all the rest? You seem focused on selling here.
     
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  13. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Scientist's have opinions too

    Location:
    AZ
    But wasn't GI Joe military? :)
     
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  14. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Magic, pure magic. The same with fuses, pure magic. When there's no logical explanation to any question, the answer is magic. That's how these things have been explained throughout the history of human beings.

    Or maybe, as @TheVinylAddict said, "bias." This is a fancy term for magic.;)
     
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  15. Weber

    Weber Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Lodi ,Ohio
    I don't work for or get any kick backs from Audioquest.
     
  16. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Scientist's have opinions too

    Location:
    AZ
    Or as I like to say - FM. :) (that's an acronym for those not aware, and not referring to a setting on your tuner).

    One can perceive magic in their own setup, when that same setup leads another to run from the room holding their ears.

    Which means that "magic" you can get from your own setup when you get that cartridge dialed in just right, good synergy / quality from the TT to amp, and you're know you're hearing near the best that can be delivered with that combination, and it gets you moving... can also lead another to run from the room holding their ears.

    But isn't that the very reason we have so much contention on "SQ"? It's an unsolvable question.

    Too many factors at play once the sound gets past *your* ear drum to ever draw conclusion by consensus, it was and always will be a personal conclusion. Once one realizes that (and is not trying to sell you something), then the discussions become less emotional, and often times amusing. Mostly amusing.
     
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  17. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    The problem is that characteristic impedance becomes purely resistive at around 1MHz and upwards. Below that the impedance becomes increasingly complex with real and imaginary parts equal. By 100Hz a nominal 50 ohm coax is typically 800 + j800 ohms. In fact the impedance is complex and changing with frequency over the entire audio frequency range

    Although it is strongly based on theory, this is a link in which there are a number of graphs that show that effect in standard radio coax Coaxial Cable Characteristic Impedance vs Frequency
     
  18. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gone
    You can think of Z0 like this
    R drops V and power over a device of junction.

    Z0 determines how much incident/incoming signal is reflected (added or subtracted with the incoming) and is refracted/passed thru at a junction. Say the junction is a cable and phono input. You'd like 100% transmission.

    Z0 = 1/sqrt( 2 Pi j L / 2 Pi j C)
    The frequency component cancels.
    R and G omitted since typically <<< X at audio frequencies/cables.

    Assume 2 junctions a and b:
    Reflection coef
    (Zb - Za)/(Zb + Za)

    Refraction coef
    2 Zb/(Zb + Za)

    As you can see from the first equation if Za = Zb nothing is reflected.

    And from the second 2 Zb / (Zb + Zb) = 1
    100% refracted or transmitted.

    There are other factors like resonant frequency, but you get the gist.

    imo but this has nothing to do with a power fuse.
     
  19. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gone
    a 3' length of coax has DC R of 800 Ohm?

    3' cable:
    C = 100 pF
    R = 0.1 Ohm
    L moot
    100 Hz, X = 15.9 MOhm
    Z = 0.1 + j 15.9e6
    Phase = 90 deg
    20000 Hz, X = 80,000
    Z = 0.1 + j 80e3
    Phase = 89.9999 deg

    imo it is the system matching that matters
     
  20. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    In fairness you need to have around 100 feet of coax or more to start seeing the effect. So for concert level, or sports stadium installations with really long runs, it is definitely something to think about.

    But is it relevant for short runs in domestic audio? Probably not.

    But it is an interesting and measurable effect, at audio frequencies.
     
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  21. vwestlife

    vwestlife Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Why all this talk about frequencies in the MHz range, when the frequency of the AC power going through the fuse is always going to be either 50 or 60 Hz?
     
    timind likes this.
  22. telemike

    telemike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greensboro, NC

    A lot of the big shows use digital audio networks for long signal runs. Stage has input box with preamps-digital out-digital mixer at FOH for example
     
  23. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
  24. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Scientist's have opinions too

    Location:
    AZ
    Hey I thought we were supposed to be discussing audiophile fuses?

    I mean, it's only 21 pages, so much more ground to cover.
     
  25. Weber

    Weber Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Lodi ,Ohio
    Right on target.
     

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