Avengers: Endgame - April 26, 2019*

I think the way to make the FF work on screen is to use their 1960s incarnation. Make them dorky throw-backs to Cold War America. There are so many ways they could do this and incorporate them into the modern world. They could actually use Endgame to bring them here (time stone or rift in negative zone caused by Thanos, etc.). The same could be true of the X-Men. They could bring the X-Men from say the 70s version (Days of Future Past) into this universe in similar fashion.

They can do any number of things. But I think the ONLY way the FF works is if they are not modernized at all.

 

That's excellent--I have been rewatching random episodes of ST:TNG lately on streaming, mainly from seasons 6 & 7. I don't think I've seen the series finale since it first aired on TV. Will be rewatching that for sure. For my money, TNG was and is the best incarnation of Trek.

I thought Civil War was fantastic also, and improved on the comic arc it was based on in just about every way.

It's in my top 3 MCU movies, along with Infinity War and the first Avengers film.

 

You've no need to pay the cinema fee now.
You might as well send me the $10.

 

It's gonna be interesting to see how the Big 2 will handle a power that never gets done properly in the books, cartoons, or movies. Stretching! Always the goofiest of abilities, hard to find a dopier power, although Bouncing Boy comes to mind! I mention this due to all the FF speculation added to the announcement that DC's making a Plastic Man movie!

 

These guys can always be defeated by playing on own their abundant egos. "Thanos, you think you're soooo powerful. Why, I bet you couldn't go back in time and destroy yourself"

"Observe puny mortal how easily I can destroy myself!"

 

That's why they paired the Hulk with Thor in "Ragnorok" and it worked (plus some deft direction and expert comic timing by Hemsworth).

 

I think that the FF can be done well. Heck, The Incredibles borrowed so much from the FF, that if Marvel wasn't owned by Disney, they would probably sue!

 

That can't possibly be accurate considering Tony was advocating that each Avenger abide by international law, while Steve refused to be bound by the law and advocated against it (impossible for lawful good). Anyway, this isn't a matter of D&D designations. It's a matter of storytelling and setting up a beginning, middle and end worthy of viewers' attention and box office dollars.

If you acknowledge that Tony and Steve are both good, you must also acknowledge that they ought to be fighting evil. To see an entire film dedicated to them fighting each other was a waste of time. Especially since the story was set up to drive toward a true evil villain and then failed to deliver at the end. To me the highlight of the series are the Thor and Guardians films, where the heroes indeed battle evil.

 

Civil War follows the time-honored comic book tradition of getting the heroes to fight each other. These guys have been at it for decades!

 

It’s a little more complicated than that. They did end up fighting a true evil villain in Baron Zemo, who was able to pit Cap and Tony against eachother over Bucky being brainwashed in the past into killing Tony’s parents.

(And of course, you add T’Challa into that, who ended up nabbing Zemo before he could off himself)

This set up divisions that continue into the current movies, with Cap and Tony fighting the big bad, but in separate different factions. It’s an emotional arc that is a lot more interesting than just seeing them fight juiced-up super soldier bad guys. Will likely make for a lot better payoff as Marvel ends this phase of their films. Cap: Civil War I thought was very thoughtfully done by the Russos.

 

It wasn't complicated. The search for villains, which is what motivated Cap from the beginning of the film, turned out to be a shaggy dog story. Pfft. No villians. No payoff, no showdown. A big nothingburger. Zemo was an ambiguous character motivated by his family's death. He had managed to misplace the blame and hold the grudge, and it wasn't complicated. Wasn't even worth the screen time. No one wants to watch the characters bickering and sniping, and there is far too much of it already going on throughout Avengers 1 and 2. When they're in full blown fighting mode against each other, it's time to tune out. There is minimal chance of humor or interesting dialog at that point. It's just like watching kids fight.

 

It works in the Incredibles (which is still the best Fantastic Four film).

 

Yes, the bad guy super soldiers were a misdirection. Cap’s motivation in the movie became all about protecting his friend Bucky, as well as standing up to the accords.

There were some good themes explored in this movie, such as standing up for one’s principles, how the past shapes us, and how the mindset of revenge corrupts. It may not have been the kind of movie you wanted to see, but it was ultimately a bold take, IMO.

 

No, you didn't want to watch it. That doesn't mean no one wanted to watch the major characters in conflict with one another. As I've already stated, I loved the films and I think there is a lot more to it than bickering and sniping. The final confrontation between Steve and Tony in Civil War ("He killed my mom") is one of the most emotional fights in the entire MCU. Clearly, we have different tastes when it comes to these films. But you should not mistake what you want for what everyone in the entire fandom wants.

 

Interesting you say that. I am also a Cap guy, and I have similar thoughts. I think the MCU as we know it will be tied up in a neat bow after this one. I will still keep going if they continue to deliver high quality films and new characters, as they have not let me down yet. But, the golden age will be over if Cap does not make it out.

 

I like it a lot.

"We are in the endgame now." Dr. Strange - Infinity War

 

No way. Marvel has enough characters to keep making movies for the foreseeable future, especially with the acquisition of 20th Century Fox. If the actors are let go, I am pretty sure you will see the ends of their characters in this film. I am a huge Cap fan. But I would be OK for him to go if it is heroic and worthy, and as was said above he gets that dance with Peggy. Iron Man is more tricky. I think he survives and retires with Pepper, with an option to make an occasional cameo. Of course, we are talking about comic books here, so even if Cap died, he could certainly reappear in 5 years if the MCU needed a boost.

 

They said that since they could not do a Hulk standalone with Ruffalo, that they wanted to make a Hulk movie "inside" Ragnorok, Infinity War and Endgame. They even asked Ruffalo what he would like to explore with the character.

In Thor, Hulk had taken over the host body full time. In Infinity War, Banner was in charge because the Hulk would not come out. It will be interesting to see where they go next in this one.

It also makes me wonder how they can get everyone satisfaction? Gamora needs revenge. Nebula needs revenge. Thor needs revenge. Hulk can't go out with that beat down Thanos gave him. And those are just the four characters that need the MOST revenge. They can't all kill Thanos.

 

The Hulk turning coward in IW was an interesting development to me. Was it in the Avengers series, maybe the first one where Banner said he tried to end it with a bullet but the Hulk spit it out? Or was that from the Norton movie? Can't remember. If it was from Avengers then it makes for an interesting character development in which Hulk pretty much gives up after getting his butt handed to him.

 

I do think that the Incredible stretching power works better because it is a woman. They even play it for sex appeal (odd to say for a cartoon character). Might be trickier with a man.

 

Not to mention the heroes meeting and fighting is a staple of Marvel comics since the beginning--think back to the Thor / Iron Man fight in the first Avengers movie. Granted, it was taken to extremes in a movie like Civil War, but it's all part of the larger arc they're weaving with this movie take on the characters. They're doing a great job with these movies, IMO, in fact, the story they've told up to now across the 20-odd films is incredible.

 

Point taken. I shouldn't have said that no one wants to watch that (although why someone would want to watch the heroes fighting each other instead of fighting a villain still hasn't been explained in anything remotely approximating a logical statement). Both you and I subsequently eviscerated your former point about lawful good vs chaotic good, given that the one you attributed to the chaos was actually in favor of the law.

The "he killed my mom" line was one of the weakest of the series, especially when you consider that Stark's relationship with his mom hadn't been developed as much as that of his dad (which was also underdeveloped IMO), and that the "he" had only committed the assassination as the victim of a brainwashing assignment. So...Stark then goes after Cap. That is totally illogical and not at all in keeping with his Iron Man character.

 

Logic doesn’t play a role in emotions. It made sense to me because Cap was Bucky’s defender.

 

The first Avengers movie was when each of the previously developed characters were thrown in the mix together, so it was to be expected that there would be some tension and resolution. I agree the general trajectory of the arc has been great. Civil War took a step back. But Infinity War took two big steps forward.

 

On the contrary, bickering and fighting makes great drama. Getting along all the time doesn’t exhibit number one “Star Trek:The Next Generation” season one.

I actually think each Marvel film has taken a significant step forward with the exception of Ieon Man 2.