Benny Benjamin question. Phil Spector, 1968: "I WANT THE MOTOWN DRUMMER!!"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jul 28, 2011.

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  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I've been on a Motown jag this week. William "Benny" Benjamin could be my favorite drummer.

    When I was a kid, my friend John's mom worked at Metromedia. This meant KTTV Channel 11 here in town and she used to sneak us in to tapings all the time, even at night.

    There was this show that we saw in person a few times, it was THE LES CRANE SHOW. Les was a good looking radio personality and he had an hour on TV a week to talk about what he wanted. One week that I was there he had Rod Serling. I remember sitting about 7 feet from him and feeling thrilled that I was so close to the "Twilight Zone Guy".

    At any rate, John and I got to see a taping of LES CRANE which had the hottest music producers in the USA at that time. Phil Spector was on the show as were Greene & Stone and two others that I have forgotten completely about.

    We sat very close to Phil and I remember that Les Crane's wife Tina Louise sat right next to me on the bleachers. (In my Butthead voice: "I'm sitting next to Ginger, that's cool!")

    Phil Spector was going on and on about Bob Dylan. He was saying that Dylan's songs were wonderful and totally non-commercial. My buddy John thought otherwise and during the question and answer segment, got brave, raised his hand and (maybe because we were sitting next to Tina Louise) Les called on John. I couldn't believe it. No one said anything about two kids in the audience even though the ticket said no one under 21 allowed. The camera swung around, the bright lights came on, a big boom microphone swung over and all eyes were trained on us. I could have peed in my pants (but I didn't.)

    John asked Phil Spector this: "If Bob Dylan only writes non-commercial songs, what would you call "The Mighty Quinn"? (Currently a hit on the charts by Manfred Mann).

    Spector looked at us like we were bugs he wanted to squash. And he pretended to pull a ticker tape out of his mouth, look at it and said "I have no idea'.

    Heh, stumped him.

    I'm sure there is a video or audio tape of this show somewhere. I would really like to see it.

    By the end of the show, Charlie Greene and Brian Stone (who had been riding high with Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth) were so mad at Phil they wouldn't even look at him. Greene said on camera that he should come over and pick lint off of Phil to earn his place in the music Kingdom.

    At the end of the show Les Crane asked Spector what he needed for his life to be complete. Phil answered without hesitation: "I want the Motown Drummer".

    I laughed at that and I never forgot what he said. I knew exactly what he meant. That guy that played on EVERY Motown record. So recognizable for so many years. Without his playing, Motown wouldn't be Motown.

    So, my question is. Which friggin' Motown drummer is the one I like? Phil thought there was only one but I know now (thanks to the Internet) that there were THREE.

    But I'm sure the guy Phil admired was the same guy that I liked and that made a Motown song stand out in a crowd: William "Benny" Benjamin.

    THIS GUY on this record:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yiOqTG9Nno

    This is Benny Benjamin. He died young.

    This is him as well, right?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV97roslmt0

    And this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3bksUSPB4c

    And this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgU2kFoaJ6w

    And this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P1x7Yy9CXI&feature=related

    And this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMeclXpnmv0

    He's like the coolest pop drummer in history.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Jul 28, 2011
    #1
  2. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Midwest
    Steve,

    He is most likely referring to Benny Benjamin. Depending on the song(s) Spector liked, it could also be Pistol Allen or Uriel Jones. Those songs you listed are both performances by Benny. I had the pleasure of meeting Uriel, Eddie Willis and Bob Babbitt (The Funk Brothers) in 2008 and 2009 after both shows in Milwaukee...thanks to Rare Earth and Funk Brothers guitarist Ray Monette. Those guys are real gentleman.

    Ray is a fantastic guy and player. Eddie Willis is a sweetheart of a guy and Babbitt...bless his heart. What a grip on his handshake. A gentle giant :)

    You've inspired me to put the Hitsville box on my i-Pod. Thanks Steve.
     
    pool_of_tears, Jul 28, 2011
    #2
  3. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Tasty Jazz musicians.
     
    Sckott, Jul 28, 2011
    #3
  4. CaptainOzone

    CaptainOzone On Air Cowbell

    Location:
    Beaumont, CA, USA
    And Spector already had Hal Blaine, who was possibly on more great records than the three named Motown drummers put together.I mean no disrespect, these four were absolutely among the cream of the crop in the '60s.
     
    CaptainOzone, Jul 28, 2011
    #4
  5. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    When I worked on the Motown 40 special for ABC in 1998, they did a long segment on Benny Benjamin, with many producers and musicians reminiscing about Benjamin's many performances with the Funk Brothers. They also talked about his demons, which led to his tragic death in 1969.

    One of the producers told me that, of the people we weren't able to interview for the show (Michael Jackson being #1 on the list), Benny Benjamin was one of the biggest losses. The later 2002 documentary Standing in the Shadows of Motown goes into Benny's life and work in much more detail.

    Who's the Motown drummer who does that little roll at the beginning of every chorus, like that thing on "Ain't Too Proud to Beg"? You hear that riff on 100 Motown songs out there, and I've always wondered if this was the same guy, or just kind of a company style.
     
    Vidiot, Jul 28, 2011
    #5
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Maybe it passed into legend and became that Motown drum thing. Also that one tom tap in the middle of a phrase. 99% sure it's Benny with perhaps others totally copying his style.. hence my long winded OP..

    LIsten to the drums at the start of this confirmed Benny. Note the uprolls and the one top taps all through the song. Totally legendary Benny at Motown:

    GET READY The Temptations

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV97roslmt0
     
    Steve Hoffman, Jul 28, 2011
    #6
  7. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Midwest
    You hear a similar pickup in many, many Motown songs. There's a part in Standing In The Shadows Of Motown where Pistol Allen shows he would played it, how Benny would play it and Uriel Jones played it. Each one is slightly different...:)
     
    pool_of_tears, Jul 28, 2011
    #7
  8. ky658

    ky658 Senior Member

    Location:
    Ft Myers, Florida
    ky658, Jul 28, 2011
    #8
  9. lovingthesound

    lovingthesound Actively Remembering

    Location:
    Winnipeg, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Cosmos
    "Oh man, Benny was my favorite. When he died I couldn't eat for two weeks, it hurt me so bad.

    He and I were really the ones who tightened up the sound, the drum and the bass. We didn't need sheet music."

    James Jamerson

    http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-305.html
     
    lovingthesound, Jul 28, 2011
    #9
  10. TopForty

    TopForty Active Member

    Location:
    USA
    Nice post Steve...

    I once read in an older Billboard magazine that Richard "Pistol" Allen played drums on Heat Wave (Martha Reeves & the Vandellas), Baby Love (Supremes), and How Sweet It Is (To Be Loved By You), Marvin Gaye.
     
    TopForty, Jul 28, 2011
    #10
  11. JA Fant

    JA Fant Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Gulf Shores, AL, USA
    Very tasty Jazz musicians.
     
    JA Fant, Jul 28, 2011
    #11
  12. chewy

    chewy Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Coast USA
    steve thats amazing man you really besides all your mastering stuff and adult career u seem to have had quite an interesting upbringing in the LA media community. that tops it all u sat next to tina. u can meet phil spector any old day, but tina, wowow!
     
    chewy, Jul 28, 2011
    #12
  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Most kids growing up here with relations in the biz met interesting people. My little friends and I were heavily into music so we eagerly listened to who our parents knew and talked about and liked. It's how I got to meet Elvis, Barbara S., etc.

    The weird thing is that years later, my girlfriend Clair Marlo and I went on a double date with Tina Louise and some dude. We ate at this British joint on the West Side and had bangers & mash.... That was a trip, hanging with Tina. I wanted to bring up the Les Crane thing but I thought better of it. Didn't want to make her sad or mad so I kept my yap shut about it. I probably could have brought it up, thinking about it these years later. Quite a nice person actually.

    Tribute To Tina: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vOQ_PwgQ8A

    Of course none of this has anything to do with the great Benny Benjamin..
     
    Steve Hoffman, Jul 28, 2011
    #13
  14. Ragu

    Ragu Forum Resident

    Location:
    LA
    There is "out there" a tape (at least audio) of Bob Dylan on the Les Crane show along with Tommy Sands. In addition to singing, there several long interview segments with Bob who was very playful.
     
    Ragu, Jul 29, 2011
    #14
  15. vanhooserd

    vanhooserd Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville,TN
    Have you seen Anthony Mann's "God's Little Acre" ? Tina is great in that & looks wonderful.
     
    vanhooserd, Jul 29, 2011
    #15
  16. Jeff H.

    Jeff H. Senior Member

    Location:
    Northern, OR
    No one could play a drum pickup like "Papa Zita"!!! :) Benny is one of my favorite drummers of all time. Another one of my favorite tracks he played on was Mary Wells' "You Beat Me To The Punch".
     
    Jeff H., Jul 29, 2011
    #16
  17. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Ah, I remember that now. It's been almost ten years since I saw that film -- I should watch it again. Great show. Love that little percussive flourish; it grabs my attention every time.
     
    Vidiot, Jul 29, 2011
    #17
  18. FashionBoy

    FashionBoy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Great post Steve. Benny is inimitable. I love his playing - one of my favourite Benjamin tracks is The Contours Do You Love Me:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muu7FxdCG4U

    This is also an amazing Benjamin track, what a solid right foot on the bass drum and a beautiful musical tone also - he seemed to tune the drums differently:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdgG7ShIxYs

    I believe it is Benny Benjamin on The Supremes Come See About Me, one of my personal favourite Supremes tracks:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPeWecmW2mU&playnext=1&list=PLF0ACA201B605641B

    But I also adore Pistol Allen and feel he is incredibly underrated. He played on so many great Motown tracks including Heatwave, Live Wire, Quick Sand, Jimmy Mack, Come And Get These Memories, Baby Love, Where Did Our Love Go?, I Let Love Slip Away, The Way You Do The Things You Do... pretty much every shuffle groove Motown track.

    Where Did Our Love Go?:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6qKvgijCOM
     
    FashionBoy, Jul 29, 2011
    #18
  19. john hp

    john hp Forum Resident

    Location:
    Warwickshire, UK
    It was Uriel Jones on 'Ain't Too Proud To Beg' I believe, but he was quoted as saying "Once I heard Benny play in the studio, I tried to clone myself after him"
     
    john hp, Jul 29, 2011
    #19
  20. guy incognito

    guy incognito Senior Member

    Location:
    Mee-chigan
    God's Little Acre also features Buddy Hackett, who also appeared in It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World playing a character named Benjy Benjamin, which is pretty close to Benny Benjamin, which brings us back full circle.

    Yeah, my mind's working a little "differently" this morning.
     
    guy incognito, Jul 29, 2011
    #20
  21. JohnnyH

    JohnnyH Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    Is this the same Les Crane who released 'Desiderata' in 1971?
     
    JohnnyH, Jul 29, 2011
    #21
  22. guy incognito

    guy incognito Senior Member

    Location:
    Mee-chigan
    The same.

    He actually started out in New York, where among other things he hosted the Rolling Stones' first U.S. TV appearance in June of '64.
     
    guy incognito, Jul 29, 2011
    #22
  23. Ricko

    Ricko Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Didn't Larry Levine say it pissed Phil off that he couldn't get that Motown drum sound?

    Well somebody said it. But sometimes Phil is just full of it: "Do I Love You?" is his version of Motown and "Ringo I Love You" has some vaguely Motownish fills (for a Beatles record lol) but did he ever seriously think a Motown drum overlay was gonna happen on a Phil Spector record?

    He was probably just needling Hal Blaine for the hell of it.
     
    Ricko, Jul 29, 2011
    #23
  24. John DeAngelis

    John DeAngelis Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    :righton:
     
    John DeAngelis, Jul 29, 2011
    #24
  25. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    The three primary Motown drummers were Benny Benjamin, Richard "Pistol" Allen, and Uriel Jones. Benny was definitely the originator of that aggressive four on the floor style that bridged pop & R&B styles and has the most extensive number of Motown credits. Allen and Jones were both influenced by Benny's style, but people who obsess over these things can tell them apart by stylistic flourishes (fill & pick-up styles, etc.). In fact, in the "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" documentary, there is a really cool sequence where Pistol Allen gives a demonstration of the stylistic differences.

    In any case, all three were awesome musicians, and the percussion overlays from Jack Ashford and Eddie "Bongo" Brown were always locked into what they were doing like clockwork to add to the propulsive effect that jumped so aggressively out of radio speakers.
     
    Ken_McAlinden, Jul 29, 2011
    #25
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