"Best of Cream" (original ATCO LP veggie cover) questions

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by pig whisperer, Dec 15, 2006.

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  1. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    I'm assuming releases prior to the DCC were done from a copy then?
     
    lukpac, Dec 16, 2006
    #26
  2. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    Location:
    New England
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    The German RSO vinyl version I have (from the box set) has the same song lineup as the US version. WR is 4:56, while the 45 clocks in at 3:04.
     

    Attached Files:

    Jerry, Dec 16, 2006
    #27
  3. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    Well, us 45 collectors got a kick out of it, just as we did the stereo 45 edit of "Whole Lotta Love." Different strokes...:D

    I remember when you told us that one evening long ago...:eek: So we can safely assume the single was a fold, right? Maybe a bit of Eq tweaking, nothing more?
    Despite naysayers, "White Room" ain't a bad edit, really. "Sunshine" is pretty messy and choppy, seems to me it could have been done better. Even so, it did make the Top 40 early in '68, and then went top ten some months later. Ironic that Cream broke up probably just about or after the time when they were the most popular: WHEELS topped the charts, DISRAELI was still in the top ten, FRESH still selling moderately but steadily, going into the fall of '68.

    :ed:
     
    Ed Bishop, Dec 16, 2006
    #28
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    Edward,

    You know, I think the 45 of WHITE ROOM was actually a fold-down dub of the (only mix) stereo mix and was edited right on there. The stereo master was actually cut up just for the Veggie Cover album. Gasp..
     
    Steve Hoffman, Dec 16, 2006
    #29
  5. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    Steven,

    Good evening! :wave:

    Cripes, all that trouble to make a stereo 45 edit? Makes ya wonder what the master tape of "Whole Lotta Love" looks like, don't it? :D

    :ed:
     
    Ed Bishop, Dec 16, 2006
    #30
  6. ffracer

    ffracer Custom Title

    Location:
    in the boot at Watkins Glen, NY USA
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    If it wasn't for this wonderful forum and people, I would have known about this LP/CD. Never seen it or heard of it. Neat to learn about it.
     
    ffracer, Dec 16, 2006
    #31
  7. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    BEST OF CREAM was released in tandem with BEST OF BEE GEES(Atco SD33-292; Cream's was 33-291], both acts managed by Robert Stigwood.

    The Cream Lp is also notable for the unedited "Spoonful," which was dropped from the US Atco pressing of FRESH for "I Feel Free," the most recent single.

    :ed:
     
    Ed Bishop, Dec 16, 2006
    #32
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    Indeed the reason I wanted the album. I already had FRESH, GEARS and FIRE; three of the worst sounding Atco albums ever released. I can't imagine why there is no top end on any of those LP's. Heck, I think the sound starts cutting out around 7000 cycles. Truly Lo-Fi in the worst sense since the actual masters for the most part were in the possession of Atlantic and sound so much better. If they can cut a good sounding Bobby Darin LP why couldn't they have done the same for us kids and CREAM?
     
    Steve Hoffman, Dec 16, 2006
    #33
  9. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    Steve?
     
    lukpac, Dec 16, 2006
    #34
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    Releases of what? Which album?
     
    Steve Hoffman, Dec 16, 2006
    #35
  11. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    Wheels of Fire.

    You said White Room was edited on the stereo master. Obviously the LP and CD issues prior to the DCC were not edited. Was a copy of the master made right away for cutting purposes, and then the master edited for the single, not to be touched again till the DCC?
     
    lukpac, Dec 16, 2006
    #36
  12. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    I thought the mono FRESH CREAM came off better than the stereo; and when the original CD was released, was surprised at how nice it sounded(stereo edition, natch). By comparison, DISRAELI always sounded murky and hissy to me, and while the CD offered a bit more high end, a hi-fi recording it wasn't, and WHEELS wasn't any better.

    Come to think of it, GOODBYE probably sucked sonically, too...:D

    :ed:
     
    Ed Bishop, Dec 17, 2006
    #37
  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    I believe that the WHEELS OF FIRE version of White Room was physically removed from the WHEELS OF FIRE side one reel and placed on the Veggie reel for cutting along with the other songs. Then a dub copy was made for export and later use and eventually the songs were put back on their proper reels, when I don't know.. God knows why they bothered to do it that way since the sound of that album really stunk even though they used the masters for the most part (at least the songs that were mixed at Atlantic).

    WHEELS OF FIRE itself was cut from the actual masters and really crappy EQ dub copies. I had about 16 copies of original Atco WHEELS OF FIRE LP's when I was working on the DCC and it seems that some sides were cut with the dreadful EQ dubs and some cut with the actual masters on the other side. The EQ dubs were also used in some record club versions of the era. They recut parts a lot for that album and what they picked for cutting was totally a coin toss (or so it seemed). This is weird because Atlantic/Atco always cut everything from the original tapes and very rarely (in that era) used any EQ dubs. Something about WHEELS OF FIRE triggered that need though and I've never been able to figure out what it was.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Dec 17, 2006
    #38
  14. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    It is odd, this being a high profile release, double album, deluxe foil cover, superstar act and all...it's their "white album" fer crice sakes!!!
     
    quicksrt, Dec 17, 2006
    #39
  15. jmcinnis

    jmcinnis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA USA
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    That's what he calls that song on the "Classic Albums: Disraeli Gears" DVD.

    I always called the "veggie" album - "Best of Cream - Eggplant" since that was the only one that was named on the cover!

    I listened to a bunch of classic Atlantic/Atco CDs yesterday in honor of Ahmet, including "Live Cream Volume II"
     
    jmcinnis, Dec 17, 2006
    #40
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    I'm faintly remembering from my notes that Columbia manufacturing took the overspill of this album and it's possible that the copies mastered and pressed at Columbia used the yucky EQ dubs. When the run was over (or years later, which ever came first) the EQ tapes were sent back to Atlantic where they were duly filed under the matrix numbers. Since Atco lost rights in the 1970's the reels were filed and forgotten. The "RSO" versions both on LP and CD were made from the dupe tape that Atlantic made for England.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Dec 17, 2006
    #41
  17. johmbolaya

    johmbolaya Active Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    Very interesting. I know the whole "Wheels Of Fire"/DCC discussion has been done and can probably be found in the archives, but for those of us who haven't been on the board that long (and in truth, those of us who are too lazy to do a search :wave: ) it makes for good reading.

    More WHEELS OF FIRE (DCC VERSION) talk:
    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=39528
     
    johmbolaya, Dec 17, 2006
    #42
  18. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    The Columbia mastered/pressed ones would look like those machine stamped #s, while Atlantic's would be hand written I am guessing.

    It only gets worse with each new idea.

    I bought the Japanese RSO from the early 80s because I wanted a foil cover in stone mint condition. I wonder if they in Japan got a copy of this England copy, or that original 2nd gen tape to use. Either way, I don't reach for that album to listen to ever.

    So this was the ideal title for DCC to overhaul, foil cover, Atco :)shh: ) logo, fixed edits, fiery guitar (to toast your mids), and some memorable studio tracks.

    I wonder if you Steve ever get an email (out of the blue) from Jack or Eric saying "Hey buddy, was listening last night to this gold CD, and we'd forgotten just how good it can be" Thx, and tcb, The Cream
     
    quicksrt, Dec 17, 2006
    #43
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    Jeff,

    Actually Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker both really loved our version. I liked to think we played a small part in the Cream reunion.:agree:

    I think the Columbia pressings had really shiny labels, slick looking, not like the actual Atco labels of the time (they made their own and tried to match the colors) so that and the machine numbers are a good guide. The labels especially... It could be that the Columbia versions sound OK, I can't remember.

    I still love the DCC version of Wheels Of Fire. Hardest work I ever did in mastering.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Dec 17, 2006
    #44
  20. -Ben

    -Ben Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    The shiny labels indeed come from Columbia pressing plants with machine stamped matrix numbers. I have three sets, some from Pitman, NJ and some from Terre Haute, IN.

    The flat labels I have come from Monarch Record Mfg. Co., Los Angeles, CA. and have hand written matrix numbers.
     
    -Ben, Dec 17, 2006
    #45
  21. pig whisperer

    pig whisperer CD Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    Was the 10 track U.S. version of "Best of Cream" released on CD in the eighties or was the 12 track "Strange Brew" (brown cover) the first 'best of' compilation to appear on disc?
     
    pig whisperer, Dec 17, 2006
    #46
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    I thought it was but my mind might be playing tricks on me.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Dec 17, 2006
    #47
  23. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    The veg LP was never released on CD in the US.
     
    Larry Geller, Dec 18, 2006
    #48
  24. poweragemk

    poweragemk Old Member

    Location:
    CH
    Re: "Best of Cream" CD (original veggie cover) question

    Add the Bee Gees' IDEA to that list, too.
     
    poweragemk, Dec 18, 2006
    #49
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