Best Suited For 5.1?

Here is a question for those interested in 5.1 (Steve, included):

Since we have been discussing why certain albums are not suited (or feasible) in 5.1. Which albums, in your opinion, are suitable for 5.1 (based upon fidelity, how the album was recorded, etc.)? Are there certain classic albums that you think would largely benefit sonically (THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY A WISH LIST FOR YOUR FAVORITE ALBUMS)?

 

Rush - Moving Pictures
Yes - 90125
Beatles - Abbey Road
Styx - Grand Illusion
Genesis - Trick of the Tail
Joe Jackson - Blaze of Glory
Phil Collins - Face Value
Who - Who's Next
Steely Dan - Aja

 

In my opinion only live recordings should be considered for 5.1 and then, the rear channels should only be used for hall ambiance.

I never have, and probably never will get the chance to listen to live music from a position "inside" the band. I sit in the audience, not on stage with the players surrounding me. The "hall" surrounds me, not the players.

That is why I don't think multitrack studio recordings should be presented in 5.1.

 

Best contender for 5.1 mix?

Radiohead-OK Computer

 

Thanks for the nice crap!
Now back to the original question!

chiron is right on with OK Computer!

Revolver....Tomorrow Never Knows.....surround nirvana!
XTC, Skylarking
Pink Floyd, Meddle
ELO, Out Of The Blue or Eldorado
Led Zep II
Klatuu, 3:47 EST

 

Who's to say what is a "correct" mix? Do you mean faithful to the original in some way?

I guess any recording with more than two channels qualifies for a "multichannel" mix if there are people who want to hear it (close to a thread crap but I think I got away with it ).

 

I did answer the question! My answer was that only live albums should be considered for 5.1. Not thread crapping my opinion.

 

One time when I worked at for Crazy Eddie I helped deliver some equipment to an off, off, off broadway theatre in Manhattan. While we were carting boxes into one of the utility entrances, I could hear a large choral group in full rehearsal for a Christmas show.

Before we finished I took a moment to use a mens room backstage, which was completely tiled. I could hear the choral group loud and clear coming from my left, and the ceramic tile in the bathroom added a nice natural short decay reverb to them.

I think that all live 5.1 releases should be strictly limited to Chrismas albums of off, off, off Broadway choral groups with the front left and rear left speakers containing a slightly muffled mix of the group and the front right and rear right speakers limited only to a short-decay natural sounding mens room ceramic tile reverb.

With a little convincing I might be persuaded to permit the multichannel mix to simulate the way the choral group sounded as I walked back and forth along the side of the stage, in a "Music your ears can follow" type of way.

</tongue-in-cheek>

 

Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot

And Please Please Please can we have an SACD w/mc of PF Meddle

 

I am with Steve on this one (3 tracks or more on original tapes, with surround mix done correctly). I have heard albums that I never thought would work in surround sound very good, and others that I thought surround might add to the experience and it was a negative experience.

For instance, I think the DTS version of Santana "Abraxas" is poorly executed (and sounds terrible to boot).

Yet - Miles "Kind of Blue" works for me (and I dreaded what the surround mix of that would be like when first announced).

 

What channel would you place the 'tinkling' in?

OKAY.
For me:

Quadrophenia
Close to the Edge
Selling England by the Pound, the Lamb, and Trick of the Tail
Sgt. Pepper's
and
what the heck
Keynsham

 

I would have thought that Yes albums would be obvious choices for 5.1, but everything I've heard about the DVD-A of Fragile is disappointing. So, I guess all bets are off (either that, or they got the wrong guy to remix the tapes, eh Steve?).

I would like to hear what these titles would sound like in surround:

1. Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (I know it's being released on SACD - but I don't think its supposed to be 5.1)

2. Genesis - Trick of The Tail

3. Supertramp - Breakfast In America

4. Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms

5. AC/DC - Back In Black

6. U2 - Joshua Tree

7. Peter Gabriel - Security (4)

8. Bob Marley - Exodus

Granted, these are all classic albums, but I chose them because of the way they sound on CD, and the potential I think they would have in 5.1. Maybe Steve disagrees?

Dave

 

Elton's GYBR IS going to be 5.1!

Fragile is not that bad....it's a bit tame, that's all. It sounds great though, fidelity wise.

 

Any ELO stuff recorded before Discovery.

Alan Parsons Project especially Tales and I Robot.

Al Stewart Year Of The Cat and Time Passages.

 

If by "multi-channel mixes" we are talking about mixes where sound and instruments come from all over the place, I for one would deny others these mixes in a heartbeat if it were in my power to do so. I don't find what Elliott Shiener (of Queen's ANATO fame)(or infamy, depending on how you look at it) calls the "Wow" factor very interesting, and it is a lot more than just mildly annoying. And everytime someone creates one of these screwy mixes it DENIES ME the chance to get a DECENT MC mix that provides a 3-D "stereo" image.

"Stereo" does not mean "two speakers" and even the BEST 2 channel systems (even at $100K and up) will NEVER be capable of producing a 'stereo" image as well as a MC setup of the same quality PROVIDED THE SOURCE MATERIAL IS MIXED TO PRODUCE A STEREO IMAGE AND NOT A BUNCH OF ODDBALL SPECIAL EFFECTS.

Almost any disc mentioned in this thread would be an excellent candidate for a "stereo" MC mix. However, I have seen most of the bands listed here perform live, and with the exception of Floyd, whose concerts are more like multimedia EVENTS (complete with giant inflatable pigs and huge AV screens) than what I think of as a CONCERT, NONE of these bands sounds ANYTHING like a Wow-me-away MC mix when they perform LIVE. The truth is, most of the more radical MC mixes OF ROCK MUSIC that I've heard didn't sound like ANYTHING that does or even MIGHT exist in real life. Those mixes don't sound like anything you'd hear if the band was really PLAYING, whether you were front row center, in the back of the hall, or sitting in the middle of the stage. Those mixes don't give you a hightened sense of realism or add to the musical presentation - they are just distracting, once you get over the novelty.

Which is a shame, because MC done well on a good system is STUNNING. And by done well, I mean that what you hear is the kind of 3D soundstage audiophiles have been trying to get out of two speakers for years (usually by throwing more and more money into the setup). I mean "stereo" imaging so precise that ALL of the speakers disappear and you're not really aware you are listening to a hi-fi setup AT ALL. THAT is what happens with EXCELLENT MC.

And YES, I would DEFINITELY "deny others multichannel mixes" for MOST types of music if by MC you mean anything OTHER than what I described above. I just hope they don't start realeasing a bunch of "you're on the stage" classical MC mixes. (Well, let's pot the violins and the oboes over THERE, and the piano in the back, and let's have a bunch of tubas and stuff in the center channel - wouldn't that sound GREAT. And THEN we could PAN the flute around the room....)

This was the disc that convinced me that MC DONE RIGHT could surpass ANYTHING two channel could offer. Outside of a few weird panning effects, I would have never realized it WAS MC (until switching to the 2-channel layer, whereupon the soundstage seemed to collapse inward).


ALL THAT BEING SAID, I CAN see some instrumental/electronic music sounding EXCELLENT with a TASTEFUL gimmicky mix - something like Tangerine Dream, or Klaus Shultz, or some of Jean Michael Jarre's stuff. A lot of new age music would probably sound great mixed that way too. Some of this stuff seems MADE for the "all over the place" style of MC mixing, and that kind of mix could actually ADD to the cerebral impact/mood this kind of music attempts to create.

Also, some excellent instrumental film scores have been RECORDED for MC reproduction in the theater but are only available in stereo on CD, and would make great candidates for a hi-rez MC release.



Why the majors aren't coming out with some of this stuff to promote radical MC and giving us realistic "stereo" mixes of stuff like ANATO I'll never understand. Mixed correctly, ANATO could have provided a 3D "stereo" soundstage that would have been mind boggling. And a well-done radical mix of almost ANY Tangerine Dream release could have me parked in the middle of the room with my eyes closed listening to the sounds swirl, dreaming of eyelid movies. Oh well...

Unfortunately, my speakers weigh 150+ pounds each, so I don't really have the option of moving them around to make a crappy mix sound listenable.

 

Why should I listen to a artificial "ambient" surround mix at all, when there was no surround info recorded in the first time? Except from being a gimmick which may cause headache, "hall ambience" surround (on 5.1 or alternative formats) should mainly consist of naturally made-in-the-environment recordings.
Another cake is the really artificial multichannel mix like Dark Side Of the Moon, where mainly mono signals have been pan-potted or delayed to whichever surround speaker. This would be ok for me, but is more channels = better?
Just my two cents...
Peace
Thomas

 

If it's done by someone who really knows what they're doing, what you get is a sharper, more 3D stereo soundstage/image, not a headache - you probably won't even know the surrounds are there, unless you switch them off.

Unfortunately, there aren't many mixes like this out there. And the general public probably wouldn't be interested if there were.

 

Close To The Edge is supposed to be done, but I think they can't find some of the master multitrack tapes.

BTW, I never said the Fragile sonically was bad, but the DVD-A mix didn't do much for me. It's not horrible, but I think they could have done a much better job.

 

Renaissance: Live at Carnegie Hall
Pink Floyd: Wish You Were Here, The Wall
Supertramp: Crime of the Century, Even in the Quietest Moments
Elton John: Tumbleweed Connection
Kansas: Leftoverture, Point of Know Return
Hollies: Another Night
Al Stewart: Year of the Cat, Time Passages
The Who: Who's Next, Quadrophenia
Jimi Hendrix: Axis: Bold as Love
Neil Young: Freedom, Ragged Glory

 

A conservative mix of this nature wouldn't interest many people, if any. It sure would cause a lot of complaints though (and returns).

Why should there be 5 speakers if they are only there to make things sound more stereo?

 

I think it's side one they can't find.

It's just a bad mix. Way too much reverb in all the wrong places. Bad balancing on the instruments too.